Pyramid Honing

Lynn

Founder of Straight Razor Place
Staff member
It's been a while since I covered this, so I thought it would be good go go over how I use the pyramids when honing.
The main thing to remember is that it really helps to make sure you have a proper bevel on your razor before going to the pyramids. Do you have to? Not every time depending on the razor, but generally, it's really the best thing to do to help you get to that edge that will shave nicely.
Another thing about the pyramids is that they are basically guidelines and people have used them as they are with success as well as experimented and used similar methods with varying stroke counts that have worked for them.
Are pyramids a scientifically sound process based on laboratory testing along with basic honing, granular structure and metallurgy principles? Absolutely! I have conducted extreme analysis on pyramids and written at least 5 journals and 3 thesis papers on the subject. Pyramids are beyond any question an incremental process of improving a razors edge to shavability. Unfortunately, there was this fire and all my data was destroyed or I would be attaching it here for your scrutiny. Dang, I hate when that happens!
So, when I think pyramids and by the way, I didn't invent this process; it was taught to me by the first honemeister Don Walters. Oh yeah, pyramids. Here are the pyramids that I use for carbon razors:
25 Strokes on 4K 25 Strokes on 8K 20 Strokes on 4K 20 Strokes on 8K 15 Strokes on 4K 15 Strokes on 8K 10 Strokes on 4K 10 strokes on 8K 5 Strokes on 4K 5 Strokes on 8K 3 Strokes on 4K 3 Strokes on 8K 1 Stroke on 4K 3 Strokes on 8K 1 Stroke on 4K 5 Strokes on 8K
That is pretty much it. It is important to use basically just the pressure of the blade on the stone. I use an X stroke and try to make sure that I keep the blade very flat through out the stroke and make sure I keep the pressure even though out the stroke. Spine and edge of the razor on the stone with even pressure at all times. This does take a little practice, but usually can be picked up pretty easily.
I can use a 45 degree angle X stroke for blades with badly flattened or uneven spines, wedges and smiley or frowning blades and it seems to work very well as it helps keep the edge on the stone throughout the stroke.
No I don't start every razor at the top with 25 strokes. Normally I will work from 15 strokes down and sometimes try working from 10 strokes down on new razors. If you have a razor that seems like the bevel is OK, you can start at the 25 strokes, but usually if you think you need more, you should go ahead and go down to a 1K and set a new bevel.
LESS STROKES ARE BETTER!!!
I have really enjoyed working with the Naniwa Super Stones lately and they offer some fun when using the pyramids. You can use either the 3K or the 5K in rotation with the 8K and they work very well with consistent and good results. I have been using the 3K for more the ebay type razors or those in a little rougher shape and using the 5K with nicer razors and full or extra hollow grinds..
This process also works very well with the Shapton Glass 4K and 8K stones.
When I first learned this process, I learned it on a Norton Combo 4K/8K stone and have worn out the 4K side on 8 stones since that time. When I first started, I was shaving right off the 8K side and had fantastic results. This was before I discovered the natural finishing stones and then the pasting or spray media. On the new Nortons, I recommend lapping off about 1/8 of an inch of the 4K side to get past the grainy feeling the newer stones have. Once the 4K side starts to feel smooth to the touch, you are there.
When we talk about lapping the stones, I really lap more to make sure I get the swarf off the stones and clean them up for the next use more than I am concerned with a millionth degree of flatness. Mostly flat is usually all you need to hone your razor so long as the edge and spine remain on the stone throughout your stroke. OK purists, don't get upset, as flat as you can get the stone is not a bad thing either. I have seen many a dished out or bowed hone from the old days and people were using them and shaving. I was using a pumice stone before Norton came out with the flattening stone and needless to say my stones were not perfectly flat, but I honed thousands of razor that were great shavers without difficulty.
The only real variation to the pyramid that I do is toward the end of the process on stainless razors or the newer harder feeling type steel razors. The variation starts at the 3 stroke level.
3 Strokes on 4K 5 Strokes on 8K 1 Stroke on 4K 5 Strokes on 8K 1 Stroke on 4K 7 Strokes on 8K
I find that these razors do better with more polishing strokes.
That pretty much sums up the pyramid method that I use. With a little practice, this is a very consistent and repeatable process and once learned can really lay the foundation for experimenting with various other honing techniques.
I hope you guys have fun with this.
I'll write something up soon on the strokes I use with the various polishing or finishing stones and media I have used.
Thanks,
Lynn
 

Gravity

New member
If I don't have an 8 would a 12k work in It's place? I know it's not ideal but for synthetics at the moment all I have is a 1k,5k, and 12k. Maybe try a few extra passes on the 12?
 

Mike_Ratliff

God of Mischief
Staff member
If I don't have an 8 would a 12k work in It's place? I know it's not ideal but for synthetics at the moment all I have is a 1k,5k, and 12k. Maybe try a few extra passes on the 12?
12k will work, but it will cut slower so you’ll need to add strokes.
 
P

primotenore

Guest
This was fascinating Lynn. Thank you. I can’t wait to give this method a try.
 

Maxkeith

Member
Lynn, why do you feel this better or produces different results from just going through a normal progression? Or is just more consistent?

I have Naniwa and Shapton Glass stones. My usual routine is Naniwa SS 1k (if I need a complete bevel reset) Shapton Glass 4k, 8k, 16k

Most of my honing is just refreshing my razors so usually just the 16k or sometimes back to the 8k then 16k
 
Lynn; since I started honing, I've been crazy to make sure the stones are flat. After reading and seeing videos by Jarrod from Superior Shave convexing coticules and Arks I am not so sure that is the most important concern. He shows many European razor manufacturers using convex stones. I've been using one of his convex trans black and it does an amazing job finishing the razor very quickly. The theory is, only a very small part of the edge touches the stone with minimal resistance. There has been a lot of negative comments about this from people who haven't tried it. When I saw how many razor manufacturers use this I had to give it a try. Jarrod has some very interesting research on this.
 

Lou Mowan

Snake River Razors, Admin
Staff member
It's been a while since I covered this, so I thought it would be good go go over how I use the pyramids when honing.
The main thing to remember is that it really helps to make sure you have a proper bevel on your razor before going to the pyramids. Do you have to? Not every time depending on the razor, but generally, it's really the best thing to do to help you get to that edge that will shave nicely.
Another thing about the pyramids is that they are basically guidelines and people have used them as they are with success as well as experimented and used similar methods with varying stroke counts that have worked for them.
Are pyramids a scientifically sound process based on laboratory testing along with basic honing, granular structure and metallurgy principles? Absolutely! I have conducted extreme analysis on pyramids and written at least 5 journals and 3 thesis papers on the subject. Pyramids are beyond any question an incremental process of improving a razors edge to shavability. Unfortunately, there was this fire and all my data was destroyed or I would be attaching it here for your scrutiny. Dang, I hate when that happens!
So, when I think pyramids and by the way, I didn't invent this process; it was taught to me by the first honemeister Don Walters. Oh yeah, pyramids. Here are the pyramids that I use for carbon razors:
25 Strokes on 4K 25 Strokes on 8K 20 Strokes on 4K 20 Strokes on 8K 15 Strokes on 4K 15 Strokes on 8K 10 Strokes on 4K 10 strokes on 8K 5 Strokes on 4K 5 Strokes on 8K 3 Strokes on 4K 3 Strokes on 8K 1 Stroke on 4K 3 Strokes on 8K 1 Stroke on 4K 5 Strokes on 8K
That is pretty much it. It is important to use basically just the pressure of the blade on the stone. I use an X stroke and try to make sure that I keep the blade very flat through out the stroke and make sure I keep the pressure even though out the stroke. Spine and edge of the razor on the stone with even pressure at all times. This does take a little practice, but usually can be picked up pretty easily.
I can use a 45 degree angle X stroke for blades with badly flattened or uneven spines, wedges and smiley or frowning blades and it seems to work very well as it helps keep the edge on the stone throughout the stroke.
No I don't start every razor at the top with 25 strokes. Normally I will work from 15 strokes down and sometimes try working from 10 strokes down on new razors. If you have a razor that seems like the bevel is OK, you can start at the 25 strokes, but usually if you think you need more, you should go ahead and go down to a 1K and set a new bevel.
LESS STROKES ARE BETTER!!!
I have really enjoyed working with the Naniwa Super Stones lately and they offer some fun when using the pyramids. You can use either the 3K or the 5K in rotation with the 8K and they work very well with consistent and good results. I have been using the 3K for more the ebay type razors or those in a little rougher shape and using the 5K with nicer razors and full or extra hollow grinds..
This process also works very well with the Shapton Glass 4K and 8K stones.
When I first learned this process, I learned it on a Norton Combo 4K/8K stone and have worn out the 4K side on 8 stones since that time. When I first started, I was shaving right off the 8K side and had fantastic results. This was before I discovered the natural finishing stones and then the pasting or spray media. On the new Nortons, I recommend lapping off about 1/8 of an inch of the 4K side to get past the grainy feeling the newer stones have. Once the 4K side starts to feel smooth to the touch, you are there.
When we talk about lapping the stones, I really lap more to make sure I get the swarf off the stones and clean them up for the next use more than I am concerned with a millionth degree of flatness. Mostly flat is usually all you need to hone your razor so long as the edge and spine remain on the stone throughout your stroke. OK purists, don't get upset, as flat as you can get the stone is not a bad thing either. I have seen many a dished out or bowed hone from the old days and people were using them and shaving. I was using a pumice stone before Norton came out with the flattening stone and needless to say my stones were not perfectly flat, but I honed thousands of razor that were great shavers without difficulty.
The only real variation to the pyramid that I do is toward the end of the process on stainless razors or the newer harder feeling type steel razors. The variation starts at the 3 stroke level.
3 Strokes on 4K 5 Strokes on 8K 1 Stroke on 4K 5 Strokes on 8K 1 Stroke on 4K 7 Strokes on 8K
I find that these razors do better with more polishing strokes.
That pretty much sums up the pyramid method that I use. With a little practice, this is a very consistent and repeatable process and once learned can really lay the foundation for experimenting with various other honing techniques.
I hope you guys have fun with this.
I'll write something up soon on the strokes I use with the various polishing or finishing stones and media I have used.
Thanks,
Lynn
Great write up Lynn. Pyramiding does work
 

Lynn

Founder of Straight Razor Place
Staff member
Lynn, why do you feel this better or produces different results from just going through a normal progression? Or is just more consistent?

I have Naniwa and Shapton Glass stones. My usual routine is Naniwa SS 1k (if I need a complete bevel reset) Shapton Glass 4k, 8k, 16k

Most of my honing is just refreshing my razors so usually just the 16k or sometimes back to the 8k then 16k
I don’t feel it’s better. ? It’s the first honing technique I learned that worked consistently and it still works.
 

Leatherstockings

Well-known member
Please remind me, is a stroke the same as a lap, both down the hone and back movements? Since some of the stroke numbers above are odd numbers I’m guessing a stroke is down and back.
 

Bogie

I'm not looking at you !
Hi Lynn,
Followed your business and advice for years. Honing was always a learining adventure for me. I started with Norton's and ended up with Shaptons and JNats. I never really understood the pyramid honing. Why go finer then coarser back to finer? That said it may be more the person than the technique. I bought several razors from you and Don and they were always superb. I finally found a technique that is working for me. I use a 1K to set a bevel. A microscope is critical here. Once I have a good bevel, I move to a 4k then an 8K. After the edge looks good under the scope, I'll finish it with a JNAT or Coticule and sometime both since thier grit seem so similar. At the end of the day, I get a great shave. Whacking whiskers is what it is all about and there are different ways to get there, I did try the pyramid for quite a while, but this just works for me.
Thank you again for all your guidance over the years.
 
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