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Thread: Hone a straight edge or to a straight edge?

  1. #41
    Senior Member DireStraights's Avatar
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    I interpreted it the same. Yo do a left to right stroke instead of a back and forth like a normal lap.

    No breadknifing. The razor should not come off the hone.

    At least that's how I see it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Utopian View Post
    Oh boy, I have wondered about this ever since I first read Jim's translation. You guys have interpreted it WAY differently than I did.

    5. Edge Finishing
    Rinse the Honyama very, very well with clean water, removing any trace of slurry. You mustn’t
    leave a single grain. Very carefully wash your hands and the razor as well.
    Wet the surface of the hone, and hold your razor or Kamisori in one hand. The proper place to hold
    a Kamisori one-handed is likely a mystery.
    Using just the weight of the blade, very very lighly pull the razor about one or two millimeters in a
    direction parallel to the razor's edge [i.e. instead of edge leading or spine leading, move the razor
    slightly back and forth perpendicular to the stone.--JDR]. Don't move any further than that. On the
    off chance that you move too much, or use too much pressure, you will remove too much steel and
    you'll create another false edge. In that case, you should go back and repeat step (4). This technique
    is very delicate, and requires a lot of practice.
    [This section was a bear to translate due to some really vague language. After much research and
    investigation, I think this is basically the freehand creation of a secondary bevel, in Japanese called
    "Kobatome," 小刃止め or "small edge finishing." Anyone who reads Japanese, please feel free to
    check me on this.--JDR
    I was wrong, wrong, wrong. The word used for “standing,” tate, is also the
    word used for “lengthwise,” and I went entirely the wrong direction.--JDR]

    (Underlined section was crossed out.)

    So you guys interpret this as microbreadknifing. I don't.

    The blade is not to be perpendicular to the surface of the stone. Instead it is to be moved perpendicular to the length of the stone, as stated "instead of edge leading or spine leading." If the microbreadknifing were the correct interpretation, then some kind of honing should be described to follow it, but there is none. This is the edge finishing.

  2. #42
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    It seems that different people interpret the Iwasaki paper differently, and maybe are using the different methods for different parts of the honing sequence. This topic has been discussed in several places with no real consensus - too bad Iwasaki-San did not have YouTube. I also like to join the edge like "bread knifing" at the bevel stage, especially if I've been using a diamond plate for corrective maintenance.

    People using the bread knife method include Carter, Livi, Alex, Doc226, me at the bevel stage, and all report good results.

    People using the back-and-forth method include Takeshi-San, me at the finishing stages, and several others posting in this thread. Here's a short video from Takeshi-San. There's a longer one if you want the full Monty.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6R7zsGj0FEA


    Cheers, Steve

  • #43
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    Here


    is an interesting video that Alex Gilmore posted on YouTube the other day, on his experiment with a version of the Iwasaki method we were discussing, using the edge parallel honing “Vibrating” technique.

    His result are interesting, as is his opinion on the viability of this as possibly the technique Iwasaki was describing.

    Just another attempt at unraveling the mystery.

    Thanks Alex.
    artp47 likes this.

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    Great video, Thanks Alex. Didn't see a lot of change in the apex. I was emailing with Alex about this and he said he didn't believe the sidestroke method was what was intended because the 2mm stroke was so short and a very small amount of this wouldn't do much. It appears he is correct (as usual).

    Cheers, Steve

  • #45
    alx
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    I wasn't too happy with the quality of the video, my technique or my description. First off at the false edge removal stage I started with the Silcon Carbide and did 5 strokes per side, then I did 6 more strokes, not 6 minutes on the green stuff like I reported. Secondly I said that at photo #1412 that those were the scratches from the Koma, not so. I should have said From stropping on the Silicon Carbide stropping and the next photos #1413, 1414 were all after the silicone carbide. Note: my SiC powder looks to not be the finest qualtiy.

    Beginning with photo #1416 taken at the base of the bevel 1/4 away from the toe do you see the effect of the side 5mm long strokes. Photos #1417, 1418 (where I mis-spoke and called it #1428) were all taken in the toe area, and up through #1423. From photos #1425 to #1427 I revisit the heel area to show the orginal silicon carbide after koma polish, and the final #1428 thru #1431 is back to the toe. If that was not confusing, then join the party.

    What I saw was that the silicon carbide did improve the immediate edge area, and in general the whole bevel was slightly polished with those few 11 strokes. But that the polishing was not totally finished 100%. Then in the water stage I say (but mis-reported) that the base area of the bevel became more polished than the edge area as the photos show. And that if I have continued to do the 5mm water only strokes the polishing would have eventually covered the bevel right up to the edge as Iwasaki-san suggested it would if you have the patience to do so.

    I think that Iwasaki-san would have rinsed off his stone more often than I did, and that some of those long parallel strokes could have been avoided. But those long scratched did suggest that work was being done as evidenced by the scratches and notice that how long scratches predominated towards the base of the bevel. Because of this I think that a single piece of scotch tape or black electrical on the spine would have isolated the edge and the whole process of clear water could be cut down to a few minutes if you are only interest in polishing the edge. I will try that next.

    Here are links to the photos rather than loading up this thread with images. Again, sorry for any confusion.
    http://www.thejapanblade.com/images/iwa1.jpg
    http://www.thejapanblade.com/images/iwa2.jpg
    http://www.thejapanblade.com/images/iwa3.jpg

    Alex

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