Thread: Harrelson's Shapton breadknife trick on Naniwas

[IIRC, what he does in the DVD is lightly BK the razor (on the 16k) after the 1k, & then again before going to the 16k. I think he says it removes microchipping.]

Has anyone tried this on a Naniwa 12K? (Mine came today!)

On my razors it would first be coming off a D8E, and again right before starting on the 12k.

If no one's tried this yet, I'll give it a go on one of my razors & report back.

EDIT: just finished lapping them (5,8,12)--now off for a honing test. I'll try on only 1 of them & report back.

Okay, here's the verdict: it's a complete waste of time/steel.

I tried it on a Wapi before the 5K-- a subsequent TPT revealed no grab--~30 circles on the 5k corrected this & the rest of the progression went great. (Passed every test beautifully). Then I got the idea to try it again before the 12k (using even lighter pressure than the 1st time). The result: a bevel reset is now needed. That also means I have to set up the 6 um lapping film to remove the Marianas Trench-deep scratches the D8E leaves in a razor. I think I'm buying a 1k next.
On the plus side, I've got my Friodur popping hairs like crazy after the 12k & CrOx. All that's left to discipline is that unholy problem child of a TI.

Could you clarify what you did? I'm not clear on the sequence you did.

Originally Posted by Utopian

Could you clarify what you did? I'm not clear on the sequence you did.

Ron, if I may interject, here is a thread I posted sometime ago on Harrelson's honing method. In the first post I explain the jointing A.K.A. breadknifing that Harrelson uses in the video.

I have tried this technique with the same very light touch that Harrelson uses and TBH I don't find it to be something I will continue to use. I think I have read posts by Howard in which he mentions that he is doing it routinely now ?

I would have posted my experience having read the OP in this thread but I wanted to see what the original poster's conclusion would be without prejudicing the outcome with my opinion.

Jimmy, I understand the concept, it's just the sequence that he used that concerns me. Specifically, I'm wondering about his use of the D8E.

I have been surprised by the amount of honing required to get the edge back from a single joint on asagi finish hone.

that being said I would still proceed with the progression or return to the finish stone at the end.

for now this is a no-go as a finishing step until I understand what I'm doing wrong or see MCs(microchips)

The D8E is just for bevel setting--no BK-ing unless you want to spend forever resetting. The single joint technique was only used on the 12k Naniwa--once after setting the bevel, & again before final polishing on the 12k.

Again, total waste of time.

I need to watch my copy of the video again, but I
always thought that Harrelson said "join", which
Howard proceeded to repeat as "joint".

*shrug*

Anyways, I tried this once in the polishing progression,
and it took me back too far. This was probably my own
use of too much pressure or other inadequate technique.

The original poster said he did this coming off of the
D8E, and before starting on the 12k. He said he did the
actual stroke on the 12k stone, so this sounds about right
to me.

- Scott

Y'know I later found out that Harrelson had only honed a couple of razors before he tackled that W&B wedge in the video. We see him do about 40 strokes with his "side honing" method and then looking at the edge under magnification he sees micro chipping and breadknifes the razor on the 16k.

Goes back to the 1k IIRC and on through the progression. At the 16k level he again very lightly breadknifes the razor and then finishes with the 16 and on to the 30k. I haven't watched the vid in a long time. I remember him doing the equivalent of a TPT a couple of times in the progression and then he shaves.

This was his first straight razor shave. It is obviously not a pleasant experience for him. In my review of the video I recall saying it was painful to watch him struggle through it. Was this because it was his first shave and he lacked technique or because the razor wasn't shave ready following all of that honing ? Speaking with Harrelson later I asked him if he had shaved with a straight since the video and he said that he had not. He said that between his business and family obligations he didn't have time for going through the learning curve.

I'm only saying that because although he is well known to be an expert honemiester in the field of Japanese plane irons and chisels a straight razor is a different kettle of fish. A W&B wedge is a formidable challenge for a neophyte straight razor honer IME.

If his shave was any indication of the efficacy of his "joining or jointing" honing technique than I am going to leave that for razors that absolutely need it for restoration of a severely chipped edge. IME a micro chipped edge is better restored with standard flat honing while setting the bevel. Just IMHO.

+1 with Jimmy
I think he said it best...

New techniques are new techniques, they often go through some growing pains, now if Howard is actually using this technique I personally would rather see a video of him doing it as Howard has been honing razors for some time....