Thread: A 1000 grit revelation for me...

So I had been meaning to try something stupid for awhile and finally took the opportunity to go for it tonight...
I was doing some honing and decided to try shaving off some of my 1k hones...
The razor was Gugi's Frank Hess X Singing hollow...
I did a quick 10 lap bevel set on a Shapton 500, great stone BTW just got it in...
I took the razor to a Shapton 1k and did 20 mixed laps and had the edge popping arm hair nicely... at that time I rinsed the stone and did 10 super light X strokes and stopped...

Using the absolute worst prep and terrible made on the face William's lather, I tried a few strokes... No stropping at all, straight off the stone... Hmm a little grabby, but with some carefully strokes I got a decent shave... Not the closest by any means, but heck a passable, comfortable, shave... I did almost everything wrong I could, except the confidence in the shaving strokes themselves...

So I learned something tonight, something we say a lot of times but now I will totally believe it...The experience of the person doing the shaving is way more important then the edge itself...
Some thing else occurred to me, I have always said you are pretty much done "sharpening" when you come off the 4k stones, I really believe that now... I am not so sure how much "sharper" the edge is going to get smoother yes, sharper I am not so sure... I am definitely going to have to do some more experimenting at much lower grits... Not to worry Gugi I won't do it with yer razor ...

Try it for yerself see what you find out...

I have always said that one would be amazed at the shave one with experience could get with what many would consider a dull blade.

i would love to hear how many more people can get their razor pop up hairs off 1k. 4k i understand but 1k is far far away from my acceptance.

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I took the razor to a Shapton 1k and did 20 mixed laps and had the edge popping arm hair nicely... at that time I rinsed the stone and did 10 super light X strokes and stopped...

Using the absolute worst prep and terrible made on the face William's lather, I tried a few strokes... No stropping at all, straight off the stone... Hmm a little grabby, but with some carefully strokes I got a decent shave... Not the closest by any means, but heck a passable, comfortable, shave... I did almost everything wrong I could, except the confidence in the shaving strokes themselves...

You're not the first to discover this Ivo shaved off a 2k norton a few years ago and posted about it here, and I've shaved off my 1k Shapton a couple of times now with different razors and I vaguely remember reading about others doing it over the years.

So yep, the 1k shapton and the 2k Norton will produce a sharp edge that will shave ok, which provides some confirmation for what Verhoeven saw in his electron microscope - edges reach their maximum sharpness with surprisingly low (to me) abrasives, after that all that happens is the bevel gets smoother and the consistency improves.

And yes the confidence in the strokes is also a major factor. I think confidence probably has as much to do with the improvements we associate with experience as technique does. I doubt that many novices could do the same thing as you did until they had a few months to a year of experience under their belt.

One fun experiment to do is to take a razor and hone it up and shave with it ever day, sticking with it day after day as it slowly degrades, until it's not fun to shave with anymore. Then oil it and put it away and go back to your normal routine for a few weeks to re-acclimate your senses, then try that old razor again. You'll be amazed at what you were managing to shave with all those weeks, and helps explain some of those old stories about guys going 20 years without honing or even stropping. It's amazing what you can get used to...

Originally Posted by mparker762

You're not the first to discover this Ivo shaved off a 2k norton a few years ago and posted about it here, and I've shaved off my 1k Shapton a couple of times now with different razors and I vaguely remember reading about others doing it over the years.

I figured as much

So yep, the 1k shapton and the 2k Norton will produce a sharp edge that will shave ok, which provides some confirmation for what Verhoeven saw in his electron microscope - edges reach their maximum sharpness with surprisingly low (to me) abrasives, after that all that happens is the bevel gets smoother and the consistency improves.

Our discussion over at B&B is what prompted me to actually go for it, I have done the 4k a few times

And yes the confidence in the strokes is also a major factor. I think confidence probably has as much to do with the improvements we associate with experience as technique does. I doubt that many novices could do the same thing as you did until they had a few months to a year of experience under their belt.

In total agreement, I wonder how it would have been if I had done proper prep and great lather too...

One fun experiment to do is to take a razor and hone it up and shave with it ever day, sticking with it day after day as it slowly degrades, until it's not fun to shave with anymore. Then oil it and put it away and go back to your normal routine for a few weeks to re-acclimate your senses, then try that old razor again. You'll be amazed at what you were managing to shave with all those weeks, and helps explain some of those old stories about guys going 20 years without honing or even stropping. It's amazing what you can get used to...

I am thinking of doing one with each day going up a grit, but I in the middle of that stropping experiment right now...Too much fun too little time...

Thanks for the great post Glen. You have given me the confidence to confess that for quite some time when I was beginning to use a straight I shaved straight off a 1k king stone, after quite a bit of stropping. It is possible, but for me not at all comfortable.

Not the closest, but not the harsh, prickly devil you may have expected; huh?

I did not find any advantage to extra tuning at 1 and 5, by the time I got to 8k. Shaving direct from each stone I ended up with about the same 8k edge I always get.

From there, with its atg stubble on my neck patch and upper lip it is a tough trick to wipe those clean without pastes. Coticule, suita, asagi all make an improvement but it is only on a fortunate day that I can get SPATUTS
(single pass and touch up truely smooth)

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

i would love to hear how many more people can get their razor pop up hairs off 1k. 4k i understand but 1k is far far away from my acceptance.

arm hair type also plays an important factor

I can only imagine what a 1k edge would feel like on the whiskers around my chin, jawline and either side of my windpipe. That is one experiment I think I will pass on.

Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

i would love to hear how many more people can get their razor pop up hairs off 1k. 4k i understand but 1k is far far away from my acceptance.

I stay at 1K until I can pop the hairs off along the length of the bevel.

IMO 1K or the bevel set, is the sharpening level, as Glen mentioned. After the bevel is set the edge is not going to get any sharper, just smoother and easier to work with. For instance, if you can pop the hairs at 1K, your still able to do this at 4K and 8K but it just becomes easier, or smoother, if you will. I have read that where the real "sharpness" is at, is in the bevel angle. The lower the angle, the sharper the blade.