Thread: Bismark and micro chipping

I recently started using the angle measurement calculator to end up somewhere between 18 and 20 degrees, which has usually meant 1-2 layers of tape to get the angle high enough.

When approached from this direction, the edge doesn't seem to break down like when it does without the tape.

I haven't yet tried adding a micro bevel after using the calculator and tape, though....

Thanks for posting this, Tom. I'm also glad to hear that it was a burr problem rather than flawed steel.

I find it interesting and I would say even amusing that as a group we tend to be very critical, particular and exacting about our razors and their fit and finish; yet, as a group, we seem to view true micro-chipping as a quirky varietal that simply requires more attention, coddling, multiple techniques, etc.

I may have strong opinions on this subject, but I will always consider,regardless of the make, a micro-chip prone razor to be defective, period. A micro-chipping edge is not endearing, it's not simply different or simply more challenging, it's a defective edge pure and simple IMO. I'm horrible at archiving old razor texts that I stumble upon, but apparently those who were knowledgeable and wrote about razors back in their "hey day" shared the same opinion.


Apologies, Tom, for going off on a bit of a tangent.
Chris L

Microbevels can cause chipping due to the tiny surface area handling a large amount of force. You would have to use less pressure than the weight of the razor itself.

That said, your razor is defective as microchipping is a sign of brittleness. You might be able to send it back to Dovo, or re-temper it yourself 375F for 3 hours in a calibrated oven.

ChrisL - I like your point of view on this! For me, it has been a matter of over honing and/or pressure 99% of the time. My Bismark has been through the ringer over the years, so the actual bevel angle was too shallow, causing the edge to break down. I don't view that as a flawed razor because I'm the one who made it that way! BTW, I haven't checked the angle on the Bismark yet with the calculator, but 2-3 pieces of tape made the edge "work" again.

At the same time, the idea of checking for imperfections with a 100x microscope is also partly the problem, as we want to see perfection and any inconsistency at 100x looks like the grand canyon. Micro chipping is to be expected as the quality of the steel is revealed at such refinement and edge thinness. I think hones have something to contribute to the chipping, as well.

codt - I think brittleness can be a cause of some micro chipping if the accompanying edge angles are too low, as is most likely the case in my razor's situation (at least I think that today! ) Brittleness comes with hardness, and I don't think my Bismark is too hard at all.

The effects of the combination of over honing, micro chipping, brittleness and edge angles opens new paths to take!

Originally Posted by jendeindustries

At the same time, the idea of checking for imperfections with a 100x microscope is also partly the problem, as we want to see perfection and any inconsistency at 100x looks like the grand canyon.

Hi Tom, I checked a razor with my 30x B&L stereoscope and it looked good. I sent the razor to a friend who, upon receiving it, emailed and said he had checked it with 100x and there were micro chips. I told him that if he gave up the 100x and just settled on 30x his honing would improve dramatically and so would mine.

Originally Posted by ChrisL

Thanks for posting this, Tom. I'm also glad to hear that it was a burr problem rather than flawed steel.

I find it interesting and I would say even amusing that as a group we tend to be very critical, particular and exacting about our razors and their fit and finish; yet, as a group, we seem to view true micro-chipping as a quirky varietal that simply requires more attention, coddling, multiple techniques, etc.

I may have strong opinions on this subject, but I will always consider,regardless of the make, a micro-chip prone razor to be defective, period. A micro-chipping edge is not endearing, it's not simply different or simply more challenging, it's a defective edge pure and simple IMO. I'm horrible at archiving old razor texts that I stumble upon, but apparently those who were knowledgeable and wrote about razors back in their "hey day" shared the same opinion.


Apologies, Tom, for going off on a bit of a tangent.
Chris L

I learned so much from yours and other tangents at SRP.
Although you are probably more right than wrong and have found some historical info to back up your opinions on microchipping, Some harder steels do this more on some hones than others. As I have mentioned in other posts, Jnats seem to make many honing problems go away including chippy types from MHO. This of course will not cure defects like inconsistant distribution of grain and other tempering defects. Personaly when I get blades like that if they are heavy enough they will turn into a small carving or marking knife or even a small mortice chisel as these tools are not as exacting as a razor. Really. no tool is except maybe a microtome but then again they are just razors set up for a different purpose. I wonder if there are any microtome forums. Could you imagine that group?

Hi Tom, I checked a razor with my 30x B&L stereoscope and it looked good. I sent the razor to a friend who, upon receiving it, emailed and said he had checked it with 100x and there were micro chips. I told him that if he gave up the 100x and just settled on 30x his honing would improve dramatically and so would mine.

Jimmy - I see where you're coming from but....