Thread: The differences among finishing stone.

At first i should say this is for advanced people .
Some of you may be disagree with me . It is ok. i want to figure out this idea myself.
(All conversation is about final edge)
I always was thinking when you get the edge from stone they are all same.
what i mean by that.
when you get "v" shape of the edge your blade gets it is sharpest point.
i have done so many times getting 'v' shape out of the edge then not stop in there.
just push more to see what happens to the edge.
i have gotten in sharpness stage that edge just too fragile to hold anymore or if blade ss blade just melts.
Now i mostly finish edge an Escher and i know eschers edge very well.
if i check it on microscope i know in which stage i am at.
is this blade shave ready or not or i have to hone a little more etc.
All above was my understanding.
After messing around with Japanese stones more then over year now i am getting a little different opinion.( again i could be wrong)

Specially after my Japanese stone .
what i have done is this.
i used that stone to finish the edge on 4 razor.
Blade does pass my sharpness bevel test all 4 but when i check under the microscope i am having problems to figure out this blade is shave ready or not.
My difficulty is this. Edge is not same as escher's ,cf,or coticule or any other Japanese stones which i have used before.
This edge is similar to picture stone number 3.
it seems like i have taped the spine. In fact i have not taped any of the blades.
I will post pictures(simple pictures. you will see the differences edge stone leaves)
what i want to ask is any of you have similar experience?
All 3 stones edge will be same sharpness but thickness of the bevel different?
if this is the case
Lets say this.
we can use stone number 3 in picture and hone the blade which doesn't hold the edge (instead of taping) and have a great edge?
I never thought about this and i am not sure.
has any of you have a different stones which gives similar edge but different thickness of the (lets say bevel?)
Or something wrong with me?
i am not sure.

picture is how different edge comes out from different stones. stone 1 is narrower then 3.
sharpness fine in all 3.(including smoothness)

I have an idea, but it only makes sense if you are working down the slurry on this Japanese stone and finishing on a coat of damp slurry...???
If you are diluting out the slurry and finishing on a clear water stone, then my theory makes no sense...

If you are on a coat of slurry then it would allow for some compressibility and as you hone on it it is possible that that tiny bit of compression is allowing for a slightly steeper angle much like 1 layer of tape would do on a clear water finish...

Sorry my friend that was the best I could think of...

Originally Posted by gssixgun

I have an idea, but it only makes sense if you are working down the slurry on this Japanese stone and finishing on a coat of damp slurry...???
If you are diluting out the slurry and finishing on a clear water stone, then my theory makes no sense...

If you are on a coat of slurry then it would allow for some compressibility and as you hone on it it is possible that that tiny bit of compression is allowing for a slightly more acute angle much like 1 layer of tape would do on a clear water finish...

Sorry my friend that was the best I could think of...

Thank You Glen.
This could be cause but
I Don't dilute when i finish an Escher or Japanese stones.
i have don't only dilution on Coticule.
I always keep slurry in the stone until i am done the honing go straight to strop on leather and test the edge.
This is weird to me . confuses me . i may need to buy more hones test them.

Hehehe any excuse to buy more hones is a worthy one

My experience level does not provide any worthy guesses at why the wider angle, but it will be of great interest to see what thoughts come on this.

All of 3 wks w/ an asagi gives many more questions than answers. My stone is slow, but quite fine. It seems to not give normal feedback from tpt or hht like a c12k. I'm still very very pleased with the smoothness, but also have more trouble reading indicators as to when it's finished. 'Would love to hear from Lynn on this.

I haven't got any idea ..... but I don't approach it the same way either. Whatever stone, whatever blade, I hone until I think it is sharp enough and TPT strop and try HHT. If it doesn't seem sharp enough I hone some more. I only use the microscope before I start and sometimes intermittently during the honing and sometimes not at all. Like we used to say when I was an ironworker,"We ain't buildin' a watch."

I'm no pro honer, but I do think I can explain what is going on. The difference is geometry & angles.

I'm sure the four razors look exactly the same to the eye, but if you were to compare the thickness of each of the four spines as well as the differences in the four edges with a micrometer that read to the .0001 you would have your answers. The difference of thickness in the spine + the difference in the grind at the bevel would cause a difference that would show up on a microscope. You could hone all four on a escher or whatever and they would show slightly different.
Scott

Maybe this is an example of stones of differing hardness & cutting speeds creating different shaped bevels on steels of different hardness?
I'm not sure it applies so much to razors but I once watched So test a kanna (Japanese plane blade) on my Spyderco UF. He diagnosed the stone as a slow cutter because it polished the rear of the bevel before the edge. He said that to use that stone on that tool would require adjustment to pressure to bring the edge into contact. Not impossible but a more appropriate stone would keep the original bevel shape.
Anywho that's my WAG for the day

Originally Posted by onimaru55

Maybe this is an example of stones of differing hardness & cutting speeds creating different shaped bevels on steels of different hardness?

Anywho that's my WAG for the day

this is what exactly what i am thinking except last part. Steel was same
4 same kind the blade.
(I PLAYED AROUND A LOT now with different steels but 4 was same brand).
Do you think could be the stones will leave different angle edges on the straight razor?
This is may be the reason price differences among Japanese stones?
more angle but same sharpness leaving stone is more expensive then less angle but with same sharpness?
I know some of you think i am crazy?

Sham, your credibility is SO established - you can be as crazy as you see fit.

I hear about your edges from all over. So crazy or not, keep it up. The only normal people are the ones we don't know well.

I'm still wrapping my head around how the trailing edge of the bevel would get polished before the leading edge. Something has to allow slurry to invade underneath the leading edge and keep it lifted until the trailing edge is hone away, lowering to leading edge into contact w/ the stone.