Thread: FT: Henckels Friodur 15/16, worked back, faux MOB scales, spanish point

Hey gang,

I have decided that stainless razors are not for me, they're too much trouble honing for my personal use. So I decided to put up for trade my what was supposed to be an 8/8 but is more like 15/16 Friodur which I bought NOS a few moons ago. Cracked Ice (faux mother of pearl) scales, "Solingen" inlay, worked back, Spanish point, no chips, no cracks, no stains or any imperfections on the blade. The scales (please do note a few black spots on the inside) close tightly, only minor hone-wear. All in all a very mint razor.
Please do note that it's NOT to be considered shave-ready even though it might very well be that a few laps on the pasted strop are everything you'll need to get it shave-ready. Also note that I honed it with 4 layers of tape to the back to get a blade-angle of 18 degrees which is considered to be the optimal angle for these blades.

As I did make a big mistake some time ago selling my NOS Filarmonica #14 blade which has bugged me ever since.
So I'd very much like to trade this beauty for a Filly #14 in equal condition. Should no one be in the market for that kinda trade I'd also trade for a 7/8 or 8/8 blade with a certain degree of decoration and similar condition as well or maybe a Duck or... - pm me your offers. The razor you're offering does not have to be shave ready!

Please also note that I'm located in Europe but I'd be happy to ship worldwide.
Please don't offer me money for the razor (at least not right now, I really wanna do a trade), the dollar is too weak that I could sell this razor at a price that suits both sides (unless you're European too... )

thanks very much guys!
Klaus

Klaus,

The scales do not seem to be the original Friodur scales - is this a repin, or perhaps the new Friodur grinds come with whatever scales they find? Come to think of it, it may be that the old Friodurs didn't have spanish point - perhaps Telly can clarify...

No, these razors were made from 55-60 year old blanks (they were already hollow ground, just came without handles) and are not repins per se. While the handles are not "original" Friodur handles, they're NOS, too. And no, the point is not a regrind, they were made that way back then. I've also had an "original" Friodur 7/8 which had a Spanish point too.

Klaus

cool, thanks for the info

Nice looking razor! I would not recommend honing with 4 pieces of tape because it will be a little bit of a PITA to touch up the razor in the future. These hone up really nice with no tape or just one piece max. Obviously it's your call though.

@heavydutysg135: Yeah, I know. I've thought long and hard about it and normally I wouldn't do it, but especially with the Friodur steel the right honing angle is crucial....
But being relatively soft steel, the impact of the taping will be gone with just a few strokes on a 1000 grit hone should the one who wants to swap it not wish to tape the back.

Just in case: If someone's considering a trade but doesn't have a 7/8 or 8/8, I'd take smaller razors too as long as the value (~150-160 USD) is roughly the same. Just as a hint: I'd be in the market for a TI

thanks,
Klaus

Originally Posted by moviemaniac

@heavydutysg135: Yeah, I know. I've thought long and hard about it and normally I wouldn't do it, but especially with the Friodur steel the right honing angle is crucial....
But being relatively soft steel, the impact of the taping will be gone with just a few strokes on a 1000 grit hone should the one who wants to swap it not wish to tape the back.

Klaus

Klaus, I really am not trying to get into an argument here so please don't take this the wrong way but just fwiw Friodur steel is generally considered VERY hard steel. J.A. Henckels is known for using hard steel (of very high quality) and the stainless cryo treated steel of the Friodur series is even harder. I am curious as to what makes you think that it is soft and what makes you think that the razor is not ground to the correct angle initially? My experience honing many Friodurs leads me to believe that it is ground just fine but obviously this could differ from the experiences of others.

Continuing the off topic discussion:


Don't write off stainless because of your impression of the Friodur. The Frios are very finicky to hone. They are capable of getting very sharp and good shavers, but require some finesse to get them there. I used to own two of them, really nice razors, but did not suit me

I bought a Dovo Renaissance 6/8 stainless and it was the easiest to hone and sharpest razor I own. Much smoother shaving for me than the Frios. Really remarkable difference.

Anyhow, just saying don't give up on the stainless!

Originally Posted by moviemaniac

Just in case: If someone's considering a trade but doesn't have a 7/8 or 8/8, I'd take smaller razors too as long as the value (~150-160 USD) is roughly the same. Just as a hint: I'd be in the market for a TI

The price you describe is one that I expect you could get in cash if you were willing to go back on your previous claim that the USD is too weak for your tastes. If I weren't desperately short on cash right now, I'd offer it in a heartbeat, rounded up a bit to counter the costs of currency exchange.

Originally Posted by Seraphim

Continuing the off topic discussion:


Don't write off stainless because of your impression of the Friodur. The Frios are very finicky to hone. They are capable of getting very sharp and good shavers, but require some finesse to get them there. I used to own two of them, really nice razors, but did not suit me

I bought a Dovo Renaissance 6/8 stainless and it was the easiest to hone and sharpest razor I own. Much smoother shaving for me than the Frios. Really remarkable difference.

Anyhow, just saying don't give up on the stainless!

As the owner of one of these very razors, I can affirm -- the Friodur takes a wicked edge. If the durability of the honing Seraphim put on it is any indication, it has by far the hardest steel I've ever shaved with; I do not look forward to the day when I need to try to touch it up myself, but that looks like it'll be some time down the road yet. Anyone who's looking for a big, ridiculously sharp blade to hack through beards that make other razors curl up and cry should consider this one (assuming the one I got through Seraphim is representative, which I have no reason to doubt that it is).

First of all, I have to clear something up here:

The friodur steel isn't hard because it's ice-tempered! The friodur-steel has a high carbon-content and would be very soft would it not be ice-tempered which brings it to around 56-58/59* on the HRC-scale. Steel with that high carbon content would become brittle and break easily were it hardened to over 60 HRC. (For comparison: These old SilverSteel blades are in the category of 63-66HRC, Iwasakis are 64 and these are BEASTS to hone!) Many people tend to think, because it's very hard to sharpen them it's very hard steel, but that's NOT the case! The Friodur is soft and, well, the German word would be "zäh", the best translation for it would be "tough" which accounts for the difficulty to sharpen. Anyone who has honed these knows that a 1000 grit stone will cut VERY fast through the steel. That's not because it's hard, but because it's soft Being a soft steel these razors don't like the finer hones, they actually make too sharp an edge which will not hold. The best hone for these is a grey-black Thuringian or Escher or blue Belgian followed by 10 laps of chromium oxide. YMMV.

@heavydutysg135: Well, the angle of 18 degrees has been found to give the best cutting and longest lasting edges due to experiments performed by guys on a German forum. You could of course leave it as it is or do whatever you please with it - whatever works is fine.

@Seraphim: Yeah, I know, these can be wicked sharp razors and while I know I can get them shave-ready if I invest the amount of time it takes, I'd rather hone 5 other razors in the same amount of time. I've had other stainless razors but gave them all away in the end - for my beard I've found carbon steel razors to be the best.
Interesting you mention the differences to the Renaissance, I might have to try one of those some day now

@existentialhero7: Yeah, my luck is that the Frios tend to sell for much more here in the US than in Germany so the USD/€ conversion doesn't hit me that hard. But, just for comparison: A while back this razor would have been in the 120-130USD-category just by the rising exchange rate alone...
An yes, the Friodurs, once sharp, will keep a very wicked and keen edge for a long, long time

By the way: Could a moderator please correct the spelling in the title? It should read "MOP" not "MOB". Sorry

*if anyone wants to dig deeper, look into the properties of these high-performance stainless steels - they're all hardened to around 55-59 HRC and would break if you attemted to get them harder:
- X40Cr14: 55-57HRC
- X46Cr13: 55-57HRC
- X90CrMoV18: 57-59HRC