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Thread: "Ting" Day...Help me troubleshoot please

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    aka shooter74743 ScottGoodman's Avatar
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    Default "Ting" Day...Help me troubleshoot please

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    My brother came over wanting to see what all went into making a knife. Looking forward to spending time with him I worked on a couple of new (for me) patterns I wanted to do as well. The steel we were working on was 1095 from New Jersey Steel Baron. We profiled the blades, stamped them, drilled holes in his, hot punched mine, normalized, clayed, and then heat treated in brine. My brine set up is a old water cooler that I put enough salt into it that there is still at least 1/4" of salt in the bottom. First blade, his, I let the blade soak at critical for 10 minutes and quenched. Didn't hear a thing, but I took my sanding block that I keep around the forge and rubbed down the bevel...yep, one crack. As you can see, four more cracked up blades. Other than the hot punching on my handles, these blades were all stock removal blades and the edges were left between a dime and penny thickness at the edge. I reduced the soak time at critical down to 3 minutes on the last blade. The last blade I actually paused about 2-3 seconds before quench. I didn't agitate the blades. Help me trouble shoot this guys, did I leave the edges too thin? Didn't get any wavy edges. Did I try to bring the hamon down too close to the edge?

    My luck with 1095 so far on knives (three razors are just fine) are 3 lived, 6 died. That's a tough ratio to handle.

    FYI, these blades were my version of the Ken Onion Shun knives.
    Northeastern Texas & Southeastern Oklahoma Mentor/Helper...PM me if I can assist you.
    God Bless,
    Scott

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    Admin & Forum fixer Bruno's Avatar
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    A couple of questions. Did you smoothen out the edge before HT?
    I also notice the the knives are curve upwards significantly. Did you make them like that, or is that the result of the differential quenching?
    If that is the quenching, that is pretty significant and will put a lot of stress on the edge. Try leaving the hardened part thicker. Also, you have to take the deformation into account when shaping the blank. The engle between the handle and the edge on the bottom 2 knives is so large that it has to be pretty hard to use them as a knife (stressful for the wrist).
    Happiness is a field, littered with the mangled corpses of your enemies. - Vlad III of Wallachia

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    aka shooter74743 ScottGoodman's Avatar
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    No, I did not smooth out past 80 grit. The blades are shaped that way, just like the Ken Onion Shun that are rather expensive. I guess I will go thicker and smooth the cutting edge.
    Northeastern Texas & Southeastern Oklahoma Mentor/Helper...PM me if I can assist you.
    God Bless,
    Scott

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    WORKSHOP:SOTD:CUSTOMS Maximilian's Avatar
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    A fast quenching oil for 1095 would be recommended but brine is it is. Did you do an interrupted quench? 1095 leaves a lot of decarb so leave enough of meat. What's the thickness of the edge before HT?
    Max Sprecher
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    Admin & Forum fixer Bruno's Avatar
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    Btw, how wide is the hardened part? If it is narrow, there is going to be a lot of stress on a very thin piece of steel.
    Happiness is a field, littered with the mangled corpses of your enemies. - Vlad III of Wallachia

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    Another factor could be the manganese content but I would suggest using warmed oil an a series of blades, then if those arent hard enough, cold oil, then, plain water. Brine really is not needed for simple steels.
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    I recently did 6 stock removal kitchen knives made from 1/16 inch 1095. Heated to non magnetic, and quenched in @150 degree F recycled McDonalds french fry oil. No problems, and nice and hard (tempered in my kitchen oven at 400F). Based on this, and the problems you had with brine, I'd recommend oil for 1095.
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    Bladesmith by Knight Adam G.'s Avatar
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    Just to be safe I only use water quenches on "W" series steels.
    Everything else I use oil.
    Respectfully,
    Adam.

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    Admin & Forum fixer Bruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skipnord View Post
    I recently did 6 stock removal kitchen knives made from 1/16 inch 1095. Heated to non magnetic, and quenched in @150 degree F recycled McDonalds french fry oil. No problems, and nice and hard (tempered in my kitchen oven at 400F). Based on this, and the problems you had with brine, I'd recommend oil for 1095.
    Scott's using differential heat treatment to create a hamon. You want water quench for that in order to get sharp hardening lines.
    Happiness is a field, littered with the mangled corpses of your enemies. - Vlad III of Wallachia

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    aka shooter74743 ScottGoodman's Avatar
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    Sorry my answers haven't been more understandable, but I was trying to answer by my phone as my computer was down a bit...come to find out it wasn't the internet service at all, was my router.

    My goal for this order of 1095 was to make some knives and razors with a hamon. I blame Charlie for this by the way, he made it look too easy, I'm realizing how how silly a notion that was now. Things are slow on the job right now and I can't afford the big investment of fast oil. After a couple days, LOTS of thinking, & your guys input on these cracked blades I would say the key errors on these blades are:
    1. Cutting edge left too thin. My batteries are dead in my micrometer, but I would say these were left too thin. I know better than this.
    2. Hardened area of the blade should be left at least 2x thicker. Note that all of the cracks are where I took the clay down the bevel of the blade. The large blade with three cracks has about 4-5mm of actual hard steel from the bottom of the hamon to the cutting edge. This combined with the steel being a bit thin was just too much stress.

    I did try differential quenching on the last blade, the "TING" was rather loud (comparatively) not muffled quenchant.

    I'm by far done with 1095 steel and hamons. My armor of pride took a ding, but I'll get back out there and get it right. Lessons like this just make you truly "know" what to do and not to do. A day of work down the tubes in just seconds in the quenchant.
    Maximilian, baldy and skipnord like this.
    Northeastern Texas & Southeastern Oklahoma Mentor/Helper...PM me if I can assist you.
    God Bless,
    Scott

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