Thread: 16K Shapton Glass

I just received the 16K Shapton Glass Plate last week. I have used it on two razors and I'd like to share this experience with you:

I 1st became aware of the Shapton Glass Ceramic sharpening system after reading 2Sharp's (bj) thread, "Shapton Glass", In Search of the Perfect Edge
Hey, if yer a honer, you've gotta read this one. I did, about three times. - a number of people are discovering that this system could be that carrot we've all been chasing, i.e., the title of bj's thread,....In Search of the Perfect edge. - Dr_Moss (Chris), gssixgun (Glen), Chrisl (Chris L.), just to name a few, besides Lynn.

Let me tell you what I've been using before the Shapton:
325 DMT (lapping), 12K DMT (for setting bevels), 4K Blue Belgium (polishing), 8K Yellow Belgium (Polishing), 12K Chinese (refinement of edge), Chromium Oxide Hanging Linen Strop (for Twlight Zone edge!)

Believe this has been a great system for me and I have been very, very successful at producing fantastic shavers. I don't suppose I have to justify why a I am reaching higher, we all know the answer to that question.

I bought the Shapton from http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/Q!0000000.htm

No, I have not purchased the DGLP (Diamond Glass Lapping Plate). I made an inquiry with Shapton and asked if my 325 DMT would suffice. They assured me it would be okay. There is no doubt in my mind that the DGLP is, and would be, the best lapper, but for now, I will go with what I have in stock. I'm not that rich - and I have been spending way too much money lately.

The size of the plate is 2-3/4" x 8-1/4" x 7/32" (thick), a diamond ceramic material bonded to a piece of glass the same size. The grit size (16, 000), size in microns (.92), and the Shapton catalogue number (50303), can be read through the glass. I think this is good! The unit comes wrapped in clear plastic.

I removed the plastic and made my usual pattern of pencil marks, and proceeded to lap with my 325 DMT over the sink w/running water. I was a bit surprised it was not very flat. Pencil marks on both ends disappeared immediately, leaving the inside of the plate quite visible of pencil marks. The plate was quite dished in the middle. It took about twenty minutes of continuous lapping to complete the job.

I wanted to try the 16K on a couple of stubborn razors that I had just never been able to get the edge that I wanted. I had tried every trick I knew trying to get that edge to produce a good shave, to no avail. I ended up putting these two blades in a pile to work on in the future. I figured these two razors would be good test subjects for the Shapton.

My two razors: A Genco, Army Navy, 5/8, and a "Karbon King" Mfg, Co., Indiana, PA., 5/8. - The results of both these razors has been identical, therefor, I will treat both as one.

The bevel was pretty much established and had a minimum amount of scratches, in fact, the bevel looked excellent. I never could understand why it never shaved well. I 1st lapped it 50 times on my Yellow Belgium, until the edge felt very sticky (TPT). I then went to the 16k Shapton, spraying the top with distilled water, I did about 40 laps. It had a nice feel to it. I was very aware of the edge on the surface of the plate. After no more than 5 or 6 laps, I could see a faint hint of metal in the water. When done, I dried the blade, took it in the bathroom, did 25 laps on the Chromium Oxide pasted linen strop, cleaned the edge with alcohol, dried the edge with tissue, did 20 laps on the linen strop, and finished with 60 laps on leather. Time to shave.......

Shave results:

What has absolutely blown my mind is that I have gotten two of the closest shaves I have ever gotten, with only two passes each, on two run of the mill razors from Ebay that never did shave well for me. I normally will do a three pass shave every time. Both shaves took only two passes to produce absolute BBS everywhere. I am wondering what I am going to get when I touch up my Dubl Ducks, W&B, Taylor 1000, Filly, etc., etc.. (my really good razors)?

I have since ordered the Shapton Glass 1000, 4000, and the 8000. These will replace my DMT 12K lapping stone and my two Belgiums. The changing of the Guard! Do I need the 30, 000 plate @ $280.00? or the DGLP @ $289.00? It seems I can probably do without them, but will I?

I think that you can probably guess that between 1 - 10, I would give this product a 20!!!

I really am excited about this Shapton System; and I ask myself, "How could it get any better?"

Thanks,

Steve

Sounds really good! Right now I am really happy with my Coticules, Eschers, and Nakayamas but I would love to try one of those someday soon.

Someone PLEASE come in here and say the Shapton 16K ain't all that. That it's no better than a good Y/G escher followed by chrome oxide.

I do not need yet another hone temptation.

One comment, if I may:

I have never been lucky enough to find or even use an Escher stone. Mainly because I have only been in this str8 razor game for a little over a year. Unfortunately, during that time, those good quality Eschers that do come available on Ebay are very, very expensive.

You can try a 16, 000 Glass Shapton for $99.00 with no shipping charges at this time from Craftsman Studio.

I believe that's worth every penny, and then some.

We have all blown a lot more than that, feeding our acquisition disorders, and have gotten a lot less.

Steve

Excellent review, Steve. Thanks for sharing your findings and being very descriptive with actual results. Unlike BJ, I also do not yet have the Shapton 30K. But......like you said, does that mean I won't get it sometime in the future?

To me, the Shapton 30K would strictly be for fun. I'm certain it performs, but by fun I mean just what you're describing, the Shapton 16K as the final stone is super. Do you NEED to go any higher? Absolutely not. But, fun is fun.

In the past, some had reported that honing on high grit Shaptons was like honing on honey. Very hard to hone and the razor would chatter across the stone. I have never yet had this problem with the 500, 1000, 2000, 4000, 8000 or 16000 ceramic on glass stones I own. I DO skew my blades a little for each stroke; meaning, my blades are always laid flat on the stones like they have to be, but rather than hone at a right angle down the stone, I tilt usually heel leading (sometimes I mix it up a bit and go toe leading for a few passes), by about 45 degrees. This is how woodworkers hone their chisels and plane irons and it does cut down on stiction issues if there were any. Prior to getting into Shaptons, I spent some time joining the Japanese style woodworking forum that is accessed through the www.shaptonstones.com website and asking the craftsman there about Shapton ceramic on glass, how they thought the stones would work for honing razors, and if they had negative stiction issues in honing their chisels and plane irons on those stones. They reported that the Shapton Pro-Series (not the ceramic on glass plates) were more prone to stiction.

Recently, I noticed that Joel from B&B commented negatively on Shapton stones citing the honing on honey sensation. I don't recall however if Joel has ever mentioned if he has any Shapton stones or more specifically ceramic on glass stones.

Steve, I'm really looking forward to further reviews from you as to how you feel the Shapton 4000 and 8000 grit ceramic stones perform for you.

If you have HAD........I do recommend that you hold on to your Belgian Blue and Yellow Coticule stones though! It's nice to have the naturals to be able to draw from.

I'll say also, I have yet to buy any stone of any kind (other than diamond plates) that did not need lapping prior to use and my Shaptons, like you've found, were no exception.

The black steel swarf really deposits quickly on the Shapton 16k, doesn't it? Best part: wipe it off under running water with a lint free cloth, rinse well and keep on honin'! I will rarely lap that stone.

Chris L

Originally Posted by dylandog

Someone PLEASE come in here and say the Shapton 16K ain't all that. That it's no better than a good Y/G escher followed by chrome oxide.

I do not need yet another hone temptation.

Oh, I thought of something!

Since the stone is thin, it would be pretty hard to use without placing it in a stone holder. I know Lynn and someone else bought the Shapton stone holder and they like it alot. That's a bit pricey. I bought one of the Woodcraft adjustable stone holders and it works superbly and is inexpensive.

That could be considered a negative, couldn't it? I'm just trying to help you out, I couldn't think of anything else!

Chris L

Really glad you posted this. I just ordered a whole set (1k-16k) of these hones. I bought the holder, though. Thanks for the good review.

Originally Posted by Joe Chandler

Really glad you posted this. I just ordered a whole set (1k-16k) of these hones. I bought the holder, though. Thanks for the good review.

Glad to have you aboard on the Shapton ship, Joe. Please be sure and share your thoughts on these stones. Did you get the 6000 grit stone? The only two I don't have yet are the 6000 and the 30000. I keep thinking the 6000 would be a fun stone to play with and may be a great stone to use for edges that don't need a fair amount of work, but maybe need a bit more tweak that the 8000 would give.

Chris L

Chris,
Why do you hone with the toe leading when "everybody else" leads with the heal if they angle the razor?

Originally Posted by Chrisl

Glad to have you aboard on the Shapton ship, Joe. Please be sure and share your thoughts on these stones. Did you get the 6000 grit stone? The only two I don't have yet are the 6000 and the 30000. I keep thinking the 6000 would be a fun stone to play with and may be a great stone to use for edges that don't need a fair amount of work, but maybe need a bit more tweak that the 8000 would give.

Chris L

I didn't get the 6k. I just got the 1k,4k, 8k, 16k, and the holder. Honestly, didn't even notice the others, as I was just trying to replace/improve over the Nortons I have currently. I will probably end up with every grit above 220 . I think the 30k is overkill, particularly since I have an Escher and a coticule. Above the 16k, I'd probably rely on pastes.


From where I ordered from, the shipping sucks, though.