Thread: New Ardennes Coticule Arrived Today

Straight from Belgium my Coticule arrived today (Thanks Rob!). I couldn't wait to get started with it. I sharpened up three razors tonight, all in different stages of wear.
1. Henckels: with a couple good nicks
2. Puma: just needing some freshening up
3. Otto Deutsch: small nicks at the toe

I was blown away by how fast the yellow side cuts. It didn't take me long to reset the bevel on the two that needed it. I could have used my 2k glass stone to do it, but I thought I'd test how the Coticule does, and it did not disappoint. It was just as fast as the 2k Shapton Glass.
<Used the TNT then moved on>

The blue side I need to get a better feel for. It seemed similar to the yellow. It sure worked up a slurry quickly, and without a slurry stone. From what I could see with my 10x loupe, it did some polishing, and I could feel a difference with the TPT. Only problem is my thumbs are so cut up I have to rely more on the arm hair test.

I finsihed on my 16k then stropped. I shaved with the Puma, and got a great shave.

From what I can tell, this is the well needed replacement for my Mexico Norton 4k/8k, which I won't lose any sleep taking out of my rotation.

I think the dark side is slate, and not BBW. So it's not suitable for honing.

The reason I think it is slate is that it looks grey instead of blue / purple, and it also looks glued on. I seem to remember reading that ardennes coticules does not make glued yellow / blue combination stones anymore.

If in doubt best ask Rob himself, but I think I am right on this one.

Looks like a COTICULE and NOT a COMBINATION stone. The dark side is NOT to be used for anything-other than holding the YELLOW

That is defanatly a yellow and not blue it is numberd no 9 rob advertisd these on the classified section ( i could be wrong) i have just had coticule deliverd mine was a kosher coti. I have just touched up several razors first with bbw and then yellow and my razors are super smooth and thats all i be doing from now on.

Bjorn, it's plesant to hear that the stone arrived safely at your place and that you like it!

Like the others are saying the black schist isn't suitable for honing purposes. It's a black schist used as a base for the Coticule.

Good luck with your Coticule!

That looks and sounds like a fine purchase, Bpave777. Those stones are much too versatile to be used only as a final polisher. I'm glad the group of guys that actually remove steel with a coticule is growing. I can't think of a more agreeable hone than a Coticule to do bevel correction work. It's interesting that you compare the speed to that of a Shapton 2K. Speed-wise, I have used coticules (with slurry) that could rival a DMT1200, but also ones that were at least 10 times slower.

I second the comments about the other side. Unless Ardennes has changed their habits, they always glue Coticules to a slate base. They do sell natural occuring combo stones on occasion, and many of the vintage Coticules that were produced decades ago are glued to a blue. But the one you got is most likely glued to a slate base.
Not to worry though: the Blue 's not very expensive, should you become curious about it.

When you use slurry on the Coticule, it rounds the very tip of the bevel a bit. I'm not sure they all do that to the same extent. It's not something that can be seen at magnification, since it's only affecting the line where both bevel planes meet and not the planes as such. I wonder about the Shapton 16K you use to refine/finish the edge. Not owning a Shapton, I know its speed only by reputation, but I would expect it would take more laps to refine an edge left by a coticule with slurry than that left by a Norton 8K. (That's one of the paradoxes of the Coticule, since, used with water, it can also improve the edge left by the 8K).
Did your first hand experience reflect those assumptions?

Best regards,
Bart.

Damn', I type slower than Rob.

Oh man I'm a dork! This is almost as bad as the time when my Norton's arrived and they separated (glue came apart) and for days I was trying to sharpen on the glued side, wondering what the strange patterns were on the hones.

Thank you all for the information. That explains A LOT! I could not understand what the slate (at the time thinking it was BB) was doing to my edge, so rather than really work on it I just left it for some questions to the group. I'm glad I did. However, now I'm a bit concerned so I might go back through the progression again, leaving out the slate this time <g>

Originally Posted by Bart

When you use slurry on the Coticule, it rounds the very tip of the bevel a bit. I'm not sure they all do that to the same extent. It's not something that can be seen at magnification, since it's only affecting the line where both bevel planes meet and not the planes as such. I wonder about the Shapton 16K you use to refine/finish the edge. Not owning a Shapton, I know its speed only by reputation, but I would expect it would take more laps to refine an edge left by a coticule with slurry than that left by a Norton 8K. (That's one of the paradoxes of the Coticule, since, used with water, it can also improve the edge left by the 8K).
Did your first hand experience reflect those assumptions?

Thank you Bart. I can't say I felt any kind of round tip, or wire edge after coming off of the Coticule. I need better magnification than my 10x I'm sure to see it. I have a 20x but the optics are such crap that I fall back to my 10x for seeing scratch patterns.

The two Glass Stones I have (2k, 16k) are amazing. The 2k cuts like I'd imagine some other type of 1k to cut. The 16k just seems to polish for me. I can't say I do a ton of passes on it, but rather rely on my pastes after that.

BTW, I should note that I'm sure I'm doing almost everything wrong, but I'm amazed at some of the shaves I'm getting while messing around with different combinations. Even coming off slate <g>

Originally Posted by bpave777

Thank you Bart. I can't say I felt any kind of round tip, or wire edge after coming off of the Coticule. I need better magnification than my 10x I'm sure to see it. I have a 20x but the optics are such crap that I fall back to my 10x for seeing scratch patterns.

You'll never overhone (which leaves a wire edge) on a coticule. That's because Coticules use garnets as abrasive medium. While those remove steel fast and leave a smooth scratch pattern at the same time (which is a unique feature), they also slightly round the tip of the bevel -the very edge-. Unless you'd invest a small fortune in a Scanning Electron Microscope, the width of the line where both bevel planes meet (which defines the actual keenness) can't be seen.

Originally Posted by bpave777

The two Glass Stones I have (2k, 16k) are amazing. The 2k cuts like I'd imagine some other type of 1k to cut. The 16k just seems to polish for me. I can't say I do a ton of passes on it, but rather rely on my pastes after that.

No offence, but I think, if you're going through a progression of pastes, the Shapton 16K step might end up having no effect on the end result at all.
As I see it, you have several options with the hones you own.
You could use the Coticule with slurry, or the Shapton 2K for bevel work, which ever you like best.
After the Shapton 2K, you need to replace its scratch pattern with something smoother before going to the Shapton 16K. Both a coticule with water or your Norton 8K would do just fine for that.
If you used the Coticule with slurry to set the bevel, than you might need something to refine the edge a bit further before going to the Shapton 16K. Although the Shapton has a reputation of being fast, I'm not sure if it has the cutting power to refine the edge left by the coticule within a reasonable amount of laps. (hence the question in my earlier post) After the positive TNT at the coticule with slurry level, I would start adding drops of water to the slurry every 10 laps, gradually diluting it to plain water. This will push the edge further up the keenness scale.
You could also set the bevel on the Coticule with slurry, gain additional keenness on the Norton 8K and finish on the coticule with water, or on the Shapton 16K.
I think you should try shaving at least once after coming off those two. (+ stropping on clean leather of course).

Originally Posted by bpave777

BTW, I should note that I'm sure I'm doing almost everything wrong, but I'm amazed at some of the shaves I'm getting while messing around with different combinations. Even coming off slate <g>

There's really no right or wrong, just sharp and sharper.
Isn't it fun?