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Thread: JNats explained...

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    Default JNats explained...

    So I've looked in the wiki, and the reviews, but there doesn't seem to be a JNAT for dummies that I've found. I've already got some Shaptons and some Naniwas, but I'm looking to expand into some naturals. JNATs seem pretty popular, but there are so darn many different types, I don't know what I'm looking at or for to be honest. How do they all stack up and what is the difference between say an Asagi and a Kiita, or are these the names of the quarries they come from. The stones I've looked at seem to have about 6 names and I don't know which is the type of stone, which is the quarry, and/or what all the other names/words mean? I know that there are a lot of folks out there that swear by them, so I'm hoping some will chime in and school the newb. Thanks.
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    The names reflect their [properties, but the same mine and stone can react differently. I have 6 jnats. The best bang for my buck was shuobodani 100 from JNS. You can get a asano nagura set but you can also use dmt slurry with it and get great results. Some of the level 5+ stones are very hard to use for beginners. My experience may be different from yours with the same stone. The way these tones work is the slurry gets broken down as you hone into finer particles and that is what gives you the finer edge. Water only is not recommended for beginers.

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    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ketsco101 View Post
    So I've looked in the wiki, and the reviews, but there doesn't seem to be a JNAT for dummies that I've found. .

    Simply put, and not being facetious here at all, but Japanese Naturals are not for dummies...

    Out of all the naturals they are probably the hardest to understand and master, all Natural stones have personality and require a bit of knowledge to choose the stone, and learn to get the most out of it.. Japanese Stones take that fact and move it farther out into Left field..

    One of my favorite sayings about honing is.. "Synthetic Hones are a Science, Naturals Stones are a Romance, make sure you really want to start that love affair" it will cost you Time and Money
    Last edited by gssixgun; 11-01-2013 at 06:08 PM.

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    Senior Member Brighty83's Avatar
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    Well, here are some jnat basics

    For the average person all you need to know is the basics and this isn't too hard to explain, but there is still a LOT to learn and you could spend years knowing them properly. Every stones preforms differently and will require different techniques. They are not easy to grasp and only for someone who is eager to spend the time learning and somone who can already hone well will get any use from them... or someone who would just prefer to look at it on a shelf.

    Basics in the name
    A: Mine
    B: Color
    C: Strata (This is the position of the mine, the higher the stone the softer and the lower the stone the harder (But not always)

    A: Mine of the stone
    Nakayama 中山
    Mizukihara 水木 原
    Oohira 大平
    Okudo 奥 殿
    Shoubudani 菖蒲 谷
    Oozuku 大 突
    Shinden 新 田
    Nartuaki - 鸣 滝 (also has two meaning: mine name and east mines)
    Kouzaki 神 前
    Hideriyama 日照 山
    Yaginoshima 八木 ノ 嶋
    Hakka 八 箇
    Ozaki 尾崎
    Okunomon 奥 ノ 門
    Takashima 高 岛
    Wakasa: near Fukui mountain name is Miyama
    Shiroto
    Maruoyama
    Yaginoshima 八木 の 嶋

    B: Color
    karusa
    Kiita
    Asagi
    Habutae
    Renge
    Kan
    and so on..

    C: Strata
    Aka-pin
    Tenjyou suita
    Hachimai
    Senmai
    Tomae
    Aisa
    Namito
    Hon suita
    Shiro suita
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    Now after that we have other stone qualities
    Suji..... means cracks
    Kane-suji.....Toxic.
    Ke-suji..... Safe. We can see the lines but there is no influence.
    Hari..... means needles, small cracks
    Harike..... Toxic
    Atarazunohari..... Safe
    Kan..... means rust colored design, mostly non-toxic.
    Aiishi..... no abrasion power
    Honishi..... good abrasion power

    A lot of sellers give a hardness rating, this is really the most important factor. In general its 1 being the softest through to 5 being the hardest.

    So, for razors the mine and color mean nothing. the strata means a little as it can influence on the hardness (Herder is better) and you don't want toxic lines as they will damage the razor.

    An example of this would be a

    Nakayama kiita tomae Level 5 (Example only)
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    Nakayama Karusu Aisa Ke-suji Level 4 (Example only)
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    I have spent the last few years collecting and testing jnats and even now i have so much to learn. If you do have the time they are fun and you will spend hours perfecting your techniques for just a single stone. If you cant hone a razor WELL with a synthetic stone a jnat is the last thing you want, it will dull your edge and you will end up with an expensive rock that you cant do anything with.

    One other thing not to get caught up on is price. More expensive dosnt mean better, it mearly means rare. So if you ever do decide to go down the jnat path dont expect a $1,000 stone will preform better then a $70 stone. Some of my best stones have cost me under $100.

    JimR has a great blog on jnats, worth a read!
    http://sharpologist.com/2012/04/an-i...ones-pt-1.html
    http://sharpologist.com/2012/05/an-i...ones-pt-2.html
    http://sharpologist.com/2012/08/an-i...ones-pt-3.html

    Anyway, there are more experienced guys on here then me so if you need to know more your best off sending a PM to either Alex, maniaman, maxim or onimaru55.

    BTW - does anyone know whats happened with JimR, i havnt seen him on here since i came back.
    Last edited by Brighty83; 11-01-2013 at 04:15 PM.

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    Senior Member Brighty83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gssixgun View Post
    One of my favorite sayings about honing is.. "Synthetic Hones are a Science, Naturals Stones are a Romance, make sure you really want to start that love affair" it will cost you Time and Money
    lol - So True!

    I think i'm in love with my rocks.. mmmm... Is that a double entendre?
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    OK, not that I'm easily swayed, but it sounds like cutting my teeth on synthetic stones is a better idea. Take the naturals I have and maybe pick up a couple basket case blades to practice/learn on there. I tried that when I first got into straights... gave me RADS... Seriously though, I appreciate the links and the tips. Don't think I won't be looking for some naturals for sale here though...

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    JMHO but get your synthetic progression down first. Starting to learn to hone on a Jnat is a very uphill climb unless you live next door to a mentor to show you. You can but synthetics can help you learn them also.

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    I appreciate this thread. Thanks to the original post and all those who responded. Glen made me laugh.

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    If someone would like to collect all info on Jnats I'm sure a lot of us would love to help out in any way we can.
    It not going to be easy tho, lots of info on this subject is misleading, wrong or just plain strange.

    I would like to see/do more non subjective tests like hardness, density, cutting ability and so on.

    Some have started with pH tests, so if anyone is a chemical engineer they could probably set up a standardized test for us to do.

    Same with hardness, we need some kind of testing probes like ceramics of different hardness we can rub our stones with.
    Hur Svenska stålet biter kom låt oss pröfva på.

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    All 6 of my jnats came from Maksim at JNS as he is trustworthy and knowledgeable. Ive been tempted to buy some stones cheaper elsewhere but didn't want to take a chance on saving a few dollars and getting a rebranded PHIG. And the testing as far as mines strata and hardness was done for me already by professionals who know more about grading stones than I could ever know.
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