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Thread: Bevel setter upgrade

  1. #1
    Junior Member kamots's Avatar
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    Default Bevel setter upgrade

    Hi guys,

    I'm currently using a Naniwa 1/3k combination stone for bevel setting. This is the first stone I've bought. I liked the price point and I found it to be pretty good to learn on.
    But ...
    All the razors I have are vintage and in need of some touch up/restoration work. The nani 1/3k, while usable, doesn't really cut the mustard for me and I need a better bevel setting stone.

    I know the Chosera/Professional 1k is the benchmark in bevel setting, but I don't think I can afford it right now.
    Looking at alternatives (like the King 1k, Naniwa Traditional or SS 1k, Shapton pro, etc) I got less than a clear picture.

    From what I've read, I'm inclined to go with the Shapton Pro(Ha No Kuromaku) 1.5k. What do you guys think?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by kamots; 09-26-2017 at 04:06 PM.

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    barba crescit caput nescit Phrank's Avatar
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    I actually think the Nani 1k is a superb stone, I have it as standalone, but have the combo 3/8k Nani.

    The big green monster Nani 1k, the Chosera, I also have, and while I've used it, personally, the Nani SS 1k is the one I'm most comfortable with and go back to time and time again.

    I'm assuming the combo 1/3k is of the same quality as the SS series and should be fine, if not, I'd go the Nani SS 1k over the green monster, and I haven't used any of the others you mention...just my opinion of course.
    Last edited by Phrank; 09-26-2017 at 04:10 PM.
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    Junior Member kamots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phrank View Post
    I actually think the Nani 1k is a superb stone, I have it as standalone, but have the combo 3/8k Nani.

    The big green monster Nani 1k, the Chosera, I also have, and while I've used it, personally, the Nani SS 1k is the one I'm most comfortable with and go back to time and time again.

    I'm assuming the combo 1/3k is of the same quality as the SS series and should be fine, if not, I'd go the Nani SS 1k over the green monster...just my opinion of course.
    Thanks for the reply.
    The 1/3k combo I have is from a lower series (Naniwa Homestone I believe) and I don't think they're on par with the Specialty/SuperStone series.
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    Last edited by kamots; 09-26-2017 at 04:14 PM.

  5. #4
    barba crescit caput nescit Phrank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamots View Post
    Thanks for the reply.
    The 1/3k combo I have is from a lower series (Naniwa Homestone I believe) and I don't think they're on par with the Specialty/SuperStone series.
    The Nani 3/8k I have has been perfectly fine, and I think you'll hear that most would agree the stones will all do what they need to do, you just have to learn each stone to get the maximum out of them. It's the person honing, not the stones that is almost always the issue.

    The bevel setter being a very important stone, while I doubt in the end it would make much difference, I'd say get the Nani SS 1k, but you'll just be jumping on a new learning curve.

    Some razors are beautifully flat, and virtually set their own bevels, others will bring your blood pressure up and require significant honing gymnastics, each razor will be different, and no stone will remove that factor, you just have to practice, practice, practice until you learn what you need to look for and accomplish with each stone and each phase.

    I hate honing with a passion, but I love finishing a razor on a natural and then shaving with my edges....the grunt work to get to final polishing on the finisher is short lived joy.

    I've set a bevel using the combo 3/8k, and the 3k side was fine for doing so....FYI....

    Most likely your Nani 1/3k will do the job perfectly well for you...

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    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    Gosh if only somebody really good looking had done a thread all about the different Bevel Setters


    Oh wait

    Dedicated Bevel Setting ....
    "No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"
    Very Respectfully - Glen

    Proprietor - GemStar Custom Razors Honing/Restores/Regrinds Website

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  8. #6
    Senior Member blabbermouth
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    "smiths" hard stone (it's not really a hard arkansas) and a diamond card to keep it cutting fast.

    Better than any synthetic 1k stone and leaves an edge that requires less clean-up work with subsequent natural stones.

    If you lay in the weeds next to the road (maybe I should say that as if you keep your eyes open on ebay and wait until you see what you're looking for) one sells for $10 or $20 from time to time with very little wear on it.

    Washita would be at least as good and have more range, but they're rarely cheap and some of them are too fine for what you want to do.

    (and yes, I've tried a million synthetic stones - maybe 15 in the 1k range as i used to have a fascination with them for woodworking - I probably still have 6 or 10 even though I don't use them, not even for woodworking at this point).

    Norton fine india is also a potential setter - especially if you scuff it then flush off any loose particles.

    If you insist on 1k stones, bester 1200 (not the 1k, that's an entirely different stone) or shapton 1k kuromaku (or 1.5, or anything in that range). I prefer the latter because you don't have to soak it. The chosera is fine, but the entire chosera line is overhyped and oversold as being really expensive to make (fujibato managed to make a full-sized mangesia binder stone for $35 several years ago - in 6k, and it's quite nice, plus naniwa can somehow make the snow white 8k and it shows up for $75 at retail in japan - there's no great reason a middle chosera should be in the neighborhood of $100+ with the 10k chosera finisher still bringing about $240 in japan).

    (I still have one chosera stone, but sold off the others - the 10k mostly to unload it before the cosmetic crazing got bad enough to make it hard to sell - it was a nice stone, but not for the price).

  9. #7
    Junior Member kamots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gssixgun View Post
    Gosh if only somebody really good looking had done a thread all about the different Bevel Setters


    Oh wait

    Dedicated Bevel Setting ....
    Thanks gssixgun, appreciated! Your thread is probably the very first I've read last week when I started researching a replacement for bevel setting. Very grateful for that and the many other threads I've found here!

    Going back to my original post, I realize I haven't done a very good/eloquent job in explaining my current conundrum.
    My main focus is the Shapton pro 1.5k. From what I've read, this stone seems to be the most outstanding among bevel setters (south of Chosera 1k)
    The only comparisons I've found on this stone were against the Chosera 1k, against which it seemed to fare extremely well (Shapton Pro 1.5k | TomoNagura.Com | Keith V. Johnson)
    I wanted to see if more people feel the same about this stone.
    Last edited by kamots; 09-26-2017 at 06:16 PM.
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    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    Here is the thing

    If you read that old thread you will see the direction of the conversation

    You have the tools you need already, the only thing that is going to change is "Speed" most people do not need more speed, in fact often it is a bad thing

    The Naniwa Traditional is now an option also and the price is quite good, I haven't tried it personally but Lynn gives it high praise...

    So you might take a look at it too

    You do have to realize that people like Lynn and myself that hone razors 5 days a week have certain parameters that we are looking at

    Speed
    Consistency
    Shallow even Striations

    Cost is not a factor within reason

    Many times people ask me what I use everyday and I point blank say "I would not recommend it unless you are already honing professionally" Most ignore that and buy it anyway


    To answer directly however I like the Shapton GS series but have not been a huge fan of the Shapton Pros for SR's YMMV
    Last edited by gssixgun; 09-26-2017 at 06:54 PM.
    "No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"
    Very Respectfully - Glen

    Proprietor - GemStar Custom Razors Honing/Restores/Regrinds Website

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  12. #9
    Junior Member kamots's Avatar
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    Thanks again. You make some valid points there and I appreciate it.
    I agree, the Naniwa 1/3k is perfectly usable for the job (as I mentioned in the OP), but there are also limitations to it that make it less than ideal to use for me.

    1. I want a stone that doesn't require soaking. The nani 1/3k is quite thirsty and will absorb lots of water even after a 15-20 min soak. As I currently use lapping film above the 3k range, I'd vastly prefer a splash and go stone.

    2. A harder stone. The 1k side is quite soft and I found myself in the situation where I had to relap it while trying to set the bevel on the same razor (a poorly ground Double Arrow). As mentioned, I have only vintage razors that require most work during bevel setting. I don't see the 1k side very suitable for this at all,especially long term or with heavier grind razors.
    A harder and more consistent stone will certainly do a better job with less fuss.

    3. A bigger stone. The nani 1/3k is aprox. 7x2 inches and I will definitely appreciate more real estate (8x2.75).
    Last edited by kamots; 09-26-2017 at 09:13 PM.

  13. #10
    Senior Member CamMorris's Avatar
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    "1. I want a stone that doesn't require soaking. The nani 1/3k is quite thirsty and will absorb lots of water even after a 15-20 min soak. As I currently use lapping film above the 3k range, I'd vastly prefer a splash and go stone."
    I use the Shapton Karumaku 1000#, It is a "splash and go" stone cuts reasonably fast, IMHO, and wont break your bank account.
    Stay Sharp
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