Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    138
    Thanked: 4

    Default Is a vintage THURINGIAN an escher?

    I have a chance to get some vintage thuringian stones, with the box stating they are Thuringian water stones. Would that make them an Escher or the same stone as an Escher? Man, I have Had worse than Rad!

  2. #2
    The original Skolor and Gentileman. gugi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    16,694
    Thanked: 3308
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    i'm pretty sure it doesn't make them escher. escher is a company that mined in the same region, but they have very specific label that clearly notes that the stone came from them. if your stone has different label, it's not escher. if it has no label it may or may not be an escher, but it's more likely not than it is.

  3. #3
    Frameback Aficionado heavydutysg135's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    1,367
    Thanked: 92

    Default

    My understanding is that they are different stones with different cutting properties. Thuringens are harder and courser while Eschers are softer and finer in general.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    138
    Thanked: 4

    Default

    Argggghhhhhhhhh! Will I ever find an Escher! Anyone else insanely obsessed like this?

    Quote Originally Posted by heavydutysg135 View Post
    My understanding is that they are different stones with different cutting properties. Thuringens are harder and courser while Eschers are softer and finer in general.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Tony Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nottingham, Maryland
    Posts
    2,494
    Thanked: 334

    Default

    I think more correctly, an Escher is likely a Thuringen, where as a Thuringen can be any of several other brands. The same vintage stone is often found with a variety of brandings on them, Escher, Boker, etc.... most were quarried in the same region, town and possibly the same hole in the ground. I had one marked Droescher with a Sears price tag on it. Under magnification all were identical.

    The confusion comes from the MST stones. They occasionally have vintage Thuringens and most often "Natural Water Stones" which are from the Hunsrueck region, darker, harder, faster and often sold as Thuringens. They look grainier, with sparkly, fleck like grain to them while the real deal tends to be a dull, uniform finish ranging from light blue grey, to dark slateboard grey, to greenish yellow. They tend to be much softer.

    In the interest of full disclosure I am a dealer in the Original Thuringen stones and for a short time in the MST Hunsruecks.

    Tony

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    882
    Thanked: 107

    Default

    It's a little complicated. The short answer is, maybe the hones you're being offered are what we call eschers, but it'd be hard to say without seeing them. What follows is the long answer.

    Gugi is right that Escher is a specific company, but their product was a hone mined in Thuringia. Other companies marketed the same thing, and back in the day these were known generically as "german water hones" or less often "Thuringian hones." Whether because Escher was the most prominent or because they're recognized as the best grade or something or maybe simply because their cool labels make them collectible I don't know but "Escher" has come to replace "German water hone" as the generic name for these very fine, slate-based hones once mined in Thuringia and ranging from yellow-green to gray-blue in color. Other common brands of "Escher" hones are Droescher, Fox, and Celebrated.

    Making things extra confusing is the fact that more recently hones are again being mined from Thuringia, and while similar these are not identical to the vintage water hones aka "eschers." They are a little harder, faster, darker (charcoal gray) and according to most a little less fine than the old ones. These are commonly called "thuringians."

    On SRP (unless I've totally misunderstood things, which is always a possibility) an "escher" refers to the vintage hone, regardless of the brand. "Thuringian" refers to the currently mined hone. This may seem confusing because it means there are what we call "eschers" that aren't in fact made by Escher & Co., and there are vintage hones out there labeled "Thuringian" that aren't what we call Thuringians, but are in fact what we call "eschers." But this system does have the merit of classifying hones by their intrinsic properties.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Tony Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nottingham, Maryland
    Posts
    2,494
    Thanked: 334

    Default

    Dylan,
    And remember the newer stones, 2" x 8" and 3" x 8", such as found on eBay by the fellow who sells the Wapis are from Hunsrueck, not Thuringen and are quite different. I sold these too for a short time and had to deal with large pyrite inclusions and more of an issue, hard glassy inclusions that would not lap flat.

    The real Thuringens available today come from newly quarried stones and some from material quarried years agao and one would ne hard pressed to tell that they perform any differently than the really old pieces.

    Tony

  8. #8
    Don
    Don is offline
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    2,410
    Thanked: 213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Miller View Post
    I think more correctly, an Escher is likely a Thuringen, where as a Thuringen can be any of several other brands. The same vintage stone is often found with a variety of brandings on them, Escher, Boker, etc.... most were quarried in the same region, town and possibly the same hole in the ground. I had one marked Droescher with a Sears price tag on it. Under magnification all were identical.

    The confusion comes from the MST stones. They occasionally have vintage Thuringens and most often "Natural Water Stones" which are from the Hunsrueck region, darker, harder, faster and often sold as Thuringens. They look grainier, with sparkly, fleck like grain to them while the real deal tends to be a dull, uniform finish ranging from light blue grey, to dark slateboard grey, to greenish yellow. They tend to be much softer.

    In the interest of full disclosure I am a dealer in the Original Thuringen stones and for a short time in the MST Hunsruecks.

    Tony
    Tony I own one of your stones and use it. but to my it is different then my esher braned stones. to me nothing polishes like a vintage esher where the stone you sell puts on a nice final cut with a slurry. Just my 2 cents.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Tony Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nottingham, Maryland
    Posts
    2,494
    Thanked: 334

    Default

    Taz,
    Whixh sized stone did you buy from me, 2 1/2" x 5" with rubbing stone or something different?
    Tony

  10. #10
    Don
    Don is offline
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    2,410
    Thanked: 213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Miller View Post
    Taz,
    Whixh sized stone did you buy from me, 2 1/2" x 5" with rubbing stone or something different?
    Tony
    Yea that is the one

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •