Thread: Swaty - to lap or not? That is the question

I have a Swaty hone that is SUPER smooth- alomst glass-like on both surfaces of the hone. Is it supposed to be so smooth?

Shoudl I lap it? I was planning to use wet dry sandapaper 325, 400, 600, 800 and 1000 grits (on a glass plate).

any suggestions / comments to help out this noob would be very much appreciated.

Barry

Unless the hone is damaged or very dirty then leave it be... The factory finish is a good thing

Now if you have the bug and just have to try it then lap the backside of the hone and leave the front side alone....

thanks.

**did my Boker arrive at your place yet???

Barry

*** Just opened the mail and yes she is here***

*happy dance**

I used to get hones from old barbers back in the 1980s. Swaty, coticules ..... I talked with them about honing and some of them demonstrated their technique for me and gave me tips. I never had one mention lapping/flattening hones of any kind. None of the old barber manuals, that I am aware of, mention it. Now I think it is a good thing for waterstones but not so much for barber hones. Like Glen says, unless there is a problem with the surface it is probably better as is. I have taken a nylon bristle brush and scoured the dirty ones but I don't lap them unless it is absolutely necessary.

Hi bman40,

I don't want to go contrary to what some of my MUCH more experienced bretheren above, but I must at least describe my experiences and opinions on this topic.

I started collecting barber hones about 6 months ago. I have 20+ now, 15 of which I actually rotate around and use every shave. Having said that, I have tried to evaluate the surfaces of each as I got them, gauging the flatness and suitability for using on my precious razors.

Depending on the age, some where made clear up to the 1930's and 40's, but not many I have that are newer than that. That means that some of them have as much as 100+ years of age on their surfaces. Depending on how they were stored and treated during their lifetimes determined what kind of surface was left on it. The softer stones, with more porous surfaces seemed to suffer from age the worst. Some of the harder stones, like my Swaty's or some Aloxites (carborundum), Duro's and American Hone company 2 sided hones, these surfaces survive age much better than others.

My softer stones were all no where near flat, nor was the surface something I wanted to drag a coveted razor across, until they were lapped, chamfered and polished. Even then some of them are only required when the blade edge is getting really bad and almost needs a new bevel. Then the soft stones worked their magic the best. If I was just looking for a smoother edge, I use the harder, polishing stones to keep the edge gleaming and true.

Now, having said all that, I only have 2 stones that I determined did not need any form of lapping, for either a badly non-flat surface, or from perforations on the surface from age, chips, massive concavities, etc.. you get the point. Some surfaces just require work to be usable, others, mostly the very hard stones require very little.

I prefer a neatly lapped, chamfered and clean stone. After flattening on the DMT325, I polish the face up to 600 grit to leave it a little bit rougher (I read that in an old barber manual on here that someone posted, and also on some of the old boxes that came with some of my hones) and use some fairly course emery paper on it. That leaves a better cutting side for really poor razors to use on first. Then I polish the back side up to 1000 grit and finish it with some really fine emery cloth.

I have had very good success with this approach, of course YMMV, and not everyone will agree with this approach, but it has worked very well for me and I'm having a ball playing with all of them.

They do not replace any serious stones, ie. a good 1k, 4k, 8k, 10+k and a final polishing on a good, hard, super high grit barber hone. I finish on crox and diamond paddles and strop like crazy. I have gotten some of my very best shaves, from my very best razors, using this system.

So I, emphasize 'I', like to do it this way. It makes it so my hones are clean, mint and appear factory fresh, flat a is possible and I know the surface is consistent all the way across the face.

Just my 2 cents my friend!! YMMV!!

Best of luck!

Mike

Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

I used to get hones from old barbers back in the 1980s. Swaty, coticules ..... I talked with them about honing and some of them demonstrated their technique for me and gave me tips. I never had one mention lapping/flattening hones of any kind. None of the old barber manuals, that I am aware of, mention it. Now I think it is a good thing for waterstones but not so much for barber hones. Like Glen says, unless there is a problem with the surface it is probably better as is. I have taken a nylon bristle brush and scoured the dirty ones but I don't lap them unless it is absolutely necessary.

I agree with Jimmy on the quick scouring. Dishing doesn't seem to be a problem for the old barbers. If it were, their stones would've never become dished in the first place. (Any slight dish would've been lapped away before it was noticeable to the eye.) Most of the old barber stones I've found were very dished, and somehow the barbers managed to stayed in business. That's enough evidence for me.

Christopher

I wet a hone and place it on the kitchen counter top. If it's sticky it's flat enough.

I doubt it needs lapping. I would only lap if it's dished...not if it's polished. If you want to go with something a little less "materials" intensive, but still lap it, just get another barber hone, and rub them together til flat. There are threads already posted about it. I've only done it once, so I can't speak to it's "universal" efficacy. But the three I did on sandpaper took about 3 days, and the one I did with a barbers hone took about ten minutes. Results were the same in either case... Two flat barber hones. So this is how I'll start all of them from now on. I hated losing that time...and sandpaper.

And from the pics I've seen of other Swaty's, yes it is supposed to be so smooth.