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02-17-2014, 10:22 PM #1
TI Le Dandy honing headache
Hi gents, I too owe lots to the senior members of this forum for their vids, blogs, notes, and posts.
Learning from them I have been able to become a competent honer of most razors in my collection, with the exception of the above mentioned Thiers.
I have the atypical 1,4,8,12 k progression of rocks now and can build and maintain edges on hollow ground German blades, wedge sheffields, and Frameback Swedish steel without issue. But this TI 69 LeDandy refuses to get sharp/smooth despite my attentions.
Last night I started with one layer of tape and good slurry on the 1k. 3 sets of 20 circles followed by 100 x's and then again with dilution, up to 4k to do the same progression with less pressure, etc..
Then I replaced the tape and added a second layer and returned to the 4k and went back up through with mild pressure.
Under the loupe I can see the two micro bevels clearly and feel I should have a good edge, but my shave lets me know to the contrary sadly..
This blade is becoming as frustrating as mandatory French in grade 7 and 8 was!! Lol.
May have to seek professional help, but I'd rather go with to see how it's bested..
02-17-2014, 10:49 PM #2
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- SE Oklahoma/NE Texas
- Blog Entries
Set it down and come back to it in a few days. I've had some fits with TI's as they are pretty hard and you can't use much pressure on them or you will be flexing the blade. As long as you are using tape, give it another go and see if the edge improves. I'm sure you will get it.Northeastern Texas & Southeastern Oklahoma Mentor/Helper...PM me if I can assist you.
02-18-2014, 12:24 AM #3
The spine looks to have a little wear as well and the shoulder is level with the spine on the pic you posted. Perhaps 2-3 layers of tape and trying to keep off the shoulder will help.
The bevel your setting also looks to be increasing to the toe, That would suggest your perhaps using too much pressure and or rolling the spine a bit too much. Or the spine has uneven wear and you need to account for that on the stroke.
Have you checked the blade geometry on some glass? If you have a nice flat piece of glass kicking about it would make your life a lot easier just to mist it and have a look through the glass at how the spine and edge are interacting with the flat surface. A glass out of a picture frame would work, Just remember that the tang needs to be off the edge of the glass. I have an optical lab block and do this with every blade I touch now because it'll show me a lot of the problems before I even start. If you add a bit of food colour to the water your using to mist then you should be able to see high/low spots.
Low spots will have a meniscus edge. It looks like the water is forming a bubble either side of the low spot.
High spots will show as a reduction in colour over the regular colour.
Last edited by Iceni; 02-18-2014 at 12:26 AM.
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02-18-2014, 01:46 AM #4
The spine is really quite messed up with loads of uneven spots. I swear it was honed on a 1" wide stone to look close.
I have hit the shoulder on my first few attempts last fall but avoided it since becoming a little more proficient.
The suggestion of three layers is a good one and I will try that next go. Never really used more than one historically but this spine may be worse than my other blades.
Thanks for the tip, need to find me a piece of glass..
02-18-2014, 01:55 AM #5
I'd almost be tempted to cheat with that spine and use a spine clip.
I have no idea if it would work.... I might go pick one up tomorrow and test it on an RSO. It might not work so I don't advise you try BTW!.
Check your geometry. Then think about how to properly tackle it, You might find you can smooth the spine to re-work the edge. Or it might be a case of sending it out to have the spine reset by a honemeister.
Last edited by Iceni; 02-18-2014 at 01:58 AM.
02-18-2014, 03:54 AM #6
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Sandpoint, Idaho
- Blog Entries
The heel, the heel
The Heel needs to be Re-contoured and moved out of the way then see what is going on after you fix that
"No amount of money spent on a Stone can ever replace the value of the time it takes learning to use it properly"
Very Respectfully - Glen
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02-19-2014, 03:56 AM #7
Thanks for the suggestions all.
I measured my blade and it's a 6/8 at the tip and 11/16 at the heel. So she has a real taper to the toe. Not sure if that's ok or I should level her out.
I gently rounded the heel area of the edge last night back to true as I bread boarded her against the edge of a barber hone before starting over with three layers of tape this time.
Shave today was ok, better than any previous attempts and i was able to go ATG without tears, but she's still not quite there.
She's a thick blade compared to most in my collection, but I do have a really nice wedge W&B to compare so I'm sure the edge is still not optimized..may all have to do with the mangled spine profile as three layers of tape really straightened out the bevel line.
I may have to put her away for a while and come back to her.
Thanks again for the great ideas.
02-19-2014, 05:49 AM #8
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
- Diamond Bar, CA
Still more needs to come off the heel, that corner point will cut you. Round that corner with a diamond plate or low grit stone.
02-19-2014, 08:26 PM #9
- Join Date
- Apr 2012
- Diamond Bar, CA
The razor looks like it has been put on a grinder or belt sander. Recently I spoke with a guy at a knife shop who told me they “sharpened” razors with a 1 inch belt sander, he brought out his belts to show me how fine the belts were. He proudly said he could put an edge on a razor in minutes.
You can see how much metal has been unevenly removed from the spine and the width of your blade. A Google Image search will show you how much steel is between the bottom of the Y and the edge and give you an idea of what the Heel should look like.
If the blade is narrower at the heel than the toe the bevel will never be even, the geometry is different from toe to heel. Heel bevel will be steeper and narrower, but you should be able to get an edge on it. Or you could breadknife the blade width even, something I would not recommend, you have lost a lot of blade width already.
I would try a “spine clip” either the plastic from a paper binder or a thin piece of plastic hose slit down the middle to make an artificially even spine. Some Sharpie ink will tell you quickly if you are reaching the edge evenly.
The bevel will be thin, but the size of the bevel does not matter as long as the edge comes togeather evenly. You should be able to make it shave.
But another good reason to thoroughly examine the condition of the spine and bevel for excessive and uneven spine wear and bevel before you buy. And then there is the overheating question.
It possibly can still be a shaver, though.
Last edited by Euclid440; 02-19-2014 at 08:33 PM.
02-19-2014, 11:28 PM #10
Great suggestion on the sleeve I think. Got me thinking of trying shim stock maybe or even getting a 1/8 or 1/4" brass tube and slitting that to try to cover the spine. Have some stock at work.
I assumed, (first mistake) that even though the toe is wider by a 1/16th the bevel lines should still intersect evenly, if the spine is true granted.
I bought this blade off the bay early in my hobby and was unaware of the subtleties yet, still am learning truth be told. Just read that the name was good and voila,, a hobby blade to keep me humble..
Most all of my blades since have been purchased from SRP members and the results speak highly for themselves.
Still a modest collection, and I realize I most likely will never find an Irish blade, nor be able to afford a good Spanish one either, but I am enjoying it nonetheless.
The honing and restoration component side of it, well that is a whole different learning curve. But also,, loving it..despite my gafs and bad buys along the path..
Good advise from solid members has kept my facial lacerations to under ten in total still, and all my fingers have recovered too, so I will keep calm, and carry on..
Thanks for the suggestions yet again all.