Thread: norton 4k/8k and x pattern

There is a reason why the European hones are 1.5" to 2" wide. It is so that you don't wear out the heel of the razor when using the X pattern. Some would argue you just wear out the centre of the blade instead.

It is also so that you can hone an uneven spine easily. The narrower the width of the hone the more likely it is for the uneven spine to undulate on the hone during the x pattern honing process.

The 3" wide hone was not really designed for honing razors. The arrival of the Norton 3" 4000/8000 was really the start.
It is correct that using an X pattern on a 3" wide hone will eventually ware a blade unevenly. It is for this reason that that the X pattern is best not used. The effect of getting an angled striation can be easily achieved on a 3" wide hone by holding the blade at a 45 degree angle on the surface whilst honing.

I can not hone an uneven spine on a wide hone. You just can not bend the edge whilst holding the spine flat. It's physically impossible.
The ultimate stone for honing an uneven spine would measure about 1.25" in width and have a smooth and even convex curve running the length of the hone. A curve like you find on the outside of a bottle. The spine can then undulate over the curve during an X pattern honeing. I can see how rolling the spine over the bottle edge would catch and hone the full length of the blade which will undulate with the spine on the narrow bottle shape curve.

Originally Posted by English

There is a reason why the European hones are 1.5" to 2" wide. It is so that you don't wear out the heel of the razor when using the X pattern. Some would argue you just wear out the centre of the blade instead. What ever part of the edge that stays on the hone longest gets the most wear. A 2" wide hone will wear in the middle of the edge the most. This causes a "frown" shape to the edge of the blade.

It is also so that you can hone an uneven spine easily. The narrower the width of the hone the more likely it is for the uneven spine to undulate on the hone during the x pattern honing process. I agree.

The 3" wide hone was not really designed for honing razors. The arrival of the Norton 3" 4000/8000 was really the start.
It is correct that using an X pattern on a 3" wide hone will eventually ware a blade unevenly. Agreed, but all hones will wear the razor unevenly. That is why compensating strokes must be used. It is for this reason that that the X pattern is best not used. I disagree. The X pattern can be used with a larger variety of blade shapes. The effect of getting an angled striation can be easily achieved on a 3" wide hone by holding the blade at a 45 degree angle on the surface whilst honing. Only if the edge is "flat", not a "smile" or "frown" shaped.

I can not hone an uneven spine on a wide hone. You just can not bend the edge whilst holding the spine flat. It's physically impossible.
The ultimate stone for honing an uneven spine would measure about 1.25" in width and have a smooth and even convex curve running the length of the hone. A curve like you find on the outside of a bottle. The spine can then undulate over the curve during an X pattern honeing. I can see how rolling the spine over the bottle edge would catch and hone the full length of the blade which will undulate with the spine on the narrow bottle shape curve. A convex shape to the surface of the hone has been used in the past. I have a hone that has both a convex and concave surface on the same side. A convex surface will allow for the honing of most any razor edge shape or uneven spine but...it is very prone to chipping due to the greatly concentrated pressure on the edge. It is also a very slow method . A person can wrap a some sandpaper around a bottle or piece of pipe and achieve the same effect. To me, the best shape for a hone is similar to a stone used for sharpening a scythe, narrow at the ends and wider in the middle. My ideal hone would be a 3" wide hone that is cut down to a width of 1" at each end and tapering to 3" at the mid point of the hone . However the surface is flat, neither convex or concave and a rolling X pattern stroke would be used.

Just my two cents,

I wish i read this topic before i started honing .... story of my life. I thought i might add my question in here instead of starting a new thread.
I got a norton 4k/8k, and a handful of ebay razors to get started on. I decided to hone a sheffield razor last night as my first attempt. Since the hone is wider than the blade, and since i had a lot of strokes to make before getting close to razor sharp i figured i didn't need the x - pattern at first. never assume, huh? Anyway i now have a razor that is quite sharp in the middle, but is dull at the tip. The bevel is much wider in the middle as well obviously. From reading this thread i now see the reason why. So ... what should i do now? can you just sharpen the tip for awhile, or is that a bad idea? If i use the x-pattern now to get the whole blade sharp, will the middle be overhoned? I figure i better ask about this before i get back to honing.

Use the magic marker trick to see where you edge is contacting the hone. Then start using the X pattern on the 1k or 4K hone and stay on those hones until the bevel is established and it passes the TPT. Don't worry about overhoning the middle section.