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Thread: Yet another honing guide !

  1. #11
    Senior Member pmburk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christophe View Post
    I put a bit of pressure when I started the DMT-325, then no/light pressure.
    Then I put (again) a bit of pressure when I started the Naniwa Super-Stone 2k, then no/light pressure.
    Then I put no/light pressure on the NSS 5k and 8k, CrOx strop and leather strop (except the last time as I described in the post).



    I did hold the razor sometimes with one hand, sometimes with both hands, depending on what king of strokes I was trying.
    I'd say that I used one hand most of the time, especially on the later grits (5k and 8k).
    I've been careful / I've tried not to add any extra pressure with the second hand but only to use it as a guide and way of keeping the spine in contact with the stone.


    Christophe
    Hmm, how zero pressure all around and just allow the razor to lay on the stone using its own gravity? I'm no expert, just trying to help, but perhaps the pressure you apply might have something to do with consistency. When I first started to learn how to hone, I used to use pressure until Ace told me that it can create inconsistencies in the edge and bevel and when I started using natural pressure (just the razor laying on the stone), it made a big difference for me. Good luck and keep posting on your progress!

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    Historically Inquisitive Martin103's Avatar
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    So I know this is likely to be my main problem (an unset bevel), but I also wanted to explain why I thought this test may not be relevant to me (good TNT and possible wrong type of arm hair).
    Christophe i agree your problem is you dont have the bevel set.personally i would stay away from circles and do x strokes till you get the bevel set correctly then the fun begins.

  3. #13
    The original Skolor and Gentileman. gugi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christophe View Post
    - the edge doesn't lay flat on the stones, as I could see, as the water showed me, and as the magic marker test showed me.
    (I'm not entirely sure if it is only because of the smile or also because of a 'twisted' blade (warp?)).
    As long as there is a curvature along the edge it will never make contact with a flat hone. Smile and warp are curvatures in two different directions. The smile is within the plane bisecting the razor, warp is perpendicular to that plane.


    Quote Originally Posted by christophe View Post
    - it's a smiling blade,
    You will have to do a bit of a scything stroke, or vary the pressure slightly throughout the stroke. Basically each section along the bevel will have to be abraded subsequently when it is in contact with the hone (since you can't have the full length bevel on the hone simultaneously).

    DO NOT attempt to straighten the edge, chances are that the spine of the razor also has curvature, if the curvature along the edge is less than that along the spine you have an effective 'frown' (even if both curves are still smiles) and that'll be very hard to hone properly. Basically the smile on the edge has to be at least as big or bigger than the one on the spine (this is just simple math).

    1/4 hollow means that you don't have much flex, so you don't have to be overly concerned with pressure. You'll have to establish the bevel with some pressure.

    Do not soak the super stones - I mean nothing wrong to spash water on top, just don't leave them to soak - these are manufacturer's instructions and some people have suffered hone damage from not following, but nobody has reported adverse effect from following.

  4. #14
    Senior Moderator JimmyHAD's Avatar
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    It is good that you are trying different approaches on the one hand, to see what works best for you. OTOH, if you were to stick with one approach until you have it down well .... and then move on to experimenting with other techniques it might be easier to get where you want to go. Kind of like the great jazz tenor sax player Charlie Parker said,"Master your instrument, and then forget all that sh!t and play.?

    I started out with the pyramids. I would set the bevel on the 1k and then move to the 4/8 pyramid. I'd finish with x strokes on whichever 'finisher' I chose. I did try Lynn's circles/x strokes method but found myself coming back to the pyramids and remain with them now. Subject to change if I get the notion but it is working for me so why fix it. They used to say that the pyramids were a good beginner method.

    It is a set series of strokes numerically so that takes some of the 'judgment' out of it. IOW, you go by the numbers, not when you think it is time to move to the next grit. The judgment can come later with more experience. Sort of creeps in and happens. BTW, another thing I learned was not to move above the 8k until I had a successful shave test. The 8k is , after all, a finisher. There are newer stones on the block but at one time in the straight razor internet world that was the ultimate. Anyway, if you go past 8k before it is time it is counter productive.

    On the matter of 'type of arm hair.' I used to think that I couldn't get HHT with any regularity because my ultra fine and flighty hair was the fault. Then one day I picked up a DE blade and did HHT with a hair that wasn't getting it with my freshly honed straight. As time and experience passed I found that my hair must have gotten coarser or my honing improved because now it is HHT positive more often than not. So anyway, look forward to reading of your journey. Don't get frustrated, it takes time and most of us had to pay the same dues.
    Be careful how you treat people on your way up, you may meet them again on your way back down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gugi View Post
    Smile and warp are curvatures in two different directions. The smile is within the plane bisecting the razor, warp is perpendicular to that plane.
    Nice way of describing it. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by gugi View Post
    1/4 hollow means that you don't have much flex, so you don't have to be overly concerned with pressure. You'll have to establish the bevel with some pressure.
    Good to know, I didn't realize that. I only thought of the drawback of having to remove more metal (which I think is subject to some debate, although not that much...)

    Quote Originally Posted by gugi View Post
    Do not soak the super stones - I mean nothing wrong to spash water on top, just don't leave them to soak - these are manufacturer's instructions and some people have suffered hone damage from not following, but nobody has reported adverse effect from following.
    First, I didn't know that. I knew there were preferences, but I didn't know that the manufacturer's instructions were not to soak them. Thanks.
    Second, I really like to have enough water on top of the stone so that I can watch the waves and ripples while honing. Plus I lap them before and after each time, because they are fairly new. So they are constantly exposed to water (running while lapping, lying on top while honing).
    Would you consider that soaking? (Or is soaking only when you fully immerse it in water for 5+ minutes?)


    Thanks again for your remarks.
    Christophe
    Last edited by christophe; 11-26-2011 at 04:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHAD View Post
    It is good that you are trying different approaches on the one hand, to see what works best for you. OTOH, if you were to stick with one approach until you have it down well .... and then move on to experimenting with other techniques it might be easier to get where you want to go.
    Yes indeed.
    However, and exactly like for the "stopping at the 8k level the first times", it's just very hard to resist the temptation. I know I should minimize the number of variables in my technique, to make it easier to isolate problems, but I think we're all like kids when it comes to learning to hone: you just won't listen to the more experienced ones .

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyHAD View Post
    As time and experience passed I found that my hair must have gotten coarser or my honing improved because now it is HHT positive more often than not.
    I like how you don't neglect any possible explanations a priori


    Thanks
    Christophe

  7. #17
    The original Skolor and Gentileman. gugi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by christophe View Post
    Second, I really like to have enough water on top of the stone so that I can watch the waves and ripples while honing. Plus I lap them before and after each time, because they are fairly new. So they are constantly exposed to water (running while lapping, lying on top while honing).
    Would you consider that soaking? (Or is soaking only when you fully immerse it in water for 5+ minutes?)
    That is fine, it's only if you leave it to immerse it in water for long time like a norton that the binder could get damaged.
    gssixgun likes this.

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