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Thread: hone a blunt razor - advice needed.

  1. #11
    Senior Member Str8Shooter's Avatar
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    OK people. Can I use the flat rock or concrete in my driveway? Sure. But if you do there is the trade off of scatching the sh*t out of the rest of the blade due to the swarf coming off the low grit stones.
    First thing you need to ask is if it is a hollow ground blade. If so then a 1K willl not take long to put a bevel on it. If it does you are doing something wrong. Watch Lynn do his circles, or Glen (at this point in time) videos. Practice. If it is a wedge then guess what, it's going to take time. There is a point where there is such a thing as too fast.
    You don't want to use an automatic knife sharpener for a reason. Take your time, learn when and how to use presure with the different grits.
    I have my 220/1K and 4K/8K norton's then my 12K Naniwa followed by a 16K shapton. The 220K is only used on knives or extreme instances(I have approx 160ish in rotation and have only used it three or four times) I also use CrOx on balsa and felt for some blades. As Lynn says... Have fun.

    Paul
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  3. #12
    Senior Member blabbermouth Theseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Str8Shooter View Post
    OK people. Can I use the flat rock or concrete in my driveway? Sure. But if you do there is the trade off of scatching the sh*t out of the rest of the blade due to the swarf coming off the low grit stones. First thing you need to ask is if it is a hollow ground blade. If so then a 1K willl not take long to put a bevel on it. If it does you are doing something wrong. Watch Lynn do his circles, or Glen (at this point in time) videos. Practice. If it is a wedge then guess what, it's going to take time. There is a point where there is such a thing as too fast. You don't want to use an automatic knife sharpener for a reason. Take your time, learn when and how to use presure with the different grits. I have my 220/1K and 4K/8K norton's then my 12K Naniwa followed by a 16K shapton. The 220K is only used on knives or extreme instances(I have approx 160ish in rotation and have only used it three or four times) I also use CrOx on balsa and felt for some blades. As Lynn says... Have fun.Paul
    +1. I only go lower than my King 800 for large chips and one particular wedge that came to me so breadknifed that it could stand by itself on it's edge.
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  4. #13
    At this point in time... gssixgun's Avatar
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    Honestly I like to differentiate between Honing and Restoration at the 1k level if I have to drop lower than that to me that falls under Restoration...

    I know it is semantics but it helps make it a bit more clear to new honers... JMHO of course

    ps: If cost is a concern then the King 1k is your stone, in fact I used it in many of my vids just for that reason, it works and works very well and is the cheapest 1k stone I own...

    Somewhere on here I did a thread comparing bevel setters will try and find it for you

    g

    Bingo: Dedicated Bevel Setting ....
    Last edited by gssixgun; 05-26-2012 at 06:44 AM.
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    The Great & Powerful Oz onimaru55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisdavie View Post
    However I recently picked up a razor from ebay that is so blunt its not funny
    That could easily fall under the 'restoration' category. Depends on the steel too. I started a Bengall I recently restored on the Shapton Pro 320. The edge was a shocker. If you need to remove rust, chips & a lot of metal, 1k can be a bit lightweight tho it will do the job. Could I have used the 1k ? Sure. It can simply come down to time constraints & how extreme the repair is..
    A 320 can be destructive in the wrong hands but hours on a 1k can equal a lot of miscued strokes. Each option requires care. A light hand with the 320 & maybe some coffee breaks with a 1k & dare I say it ? ~ a taped spine.

    If you're only using a BBW & C12k atm a 1k seems a good choice & a more evenly spaced progression.
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    Senior Member AndrewK's Avatar
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    Not meaning to be sarcastic or anything but if a Chosera and 3k are out of your budget then one option would be to save up for them. The most cost effective system I've seen from bevel setting to shaving was a 3k stone and CrOx on a loom strop.
    Last edited by AndrewK; 05-26-2012 at 09:11 AM.

  8. #16
    Robert Williams Custom Razors PapaBull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onimaru55 View Post
    That could easily fall under the 'restoration' category. Depends on the steel too. I started a Bengall I recently restored on the Shapton Pro 320. The edge was a shocker. If you need to remove rust, chips & a lot of metal, 1k can be a bit lightweight tho it will do the job. Could I have used the 1k ? Sure. It can simply come down to time constraints & how extreme the repair is..
    A 320 can be destructive in the wrong hands but hours on a 1k can equal a lot of miscued strokes. Each option requires care. A light hand with the 320 & maybe some coffee breaks with a 1k & dare I say it ? ~ a taped spine.

    If you're only using a BBW & C12k atm a 1k seems a good choice & a more evenly spaced progression.
    The "incredibly dull" thing got me, too. When I can't feel anything that resembles an edge with the ball of my thumb I know I'm going to run out of patience a long time before I'll get an edge on a razor with even a 1K if it's really good steel and/or anything but the thinnest full hollow blades. But str8shooter does have a point about scratching blades with low grit stones. If you're not careful, one stroke off the side of the stone or too much pressure and a blade flex can add a spiderweb to the blade. If it's a collectible worth hundreds, that would be something I'd take into consideration. If it's an ebay special, with a lot worse than spider webs on it already, that, too, is something I would take into consideration. I guess in the long run, experience has a lot to do with stone choices. Using finer stones keeps it simple. But I think it also results in some frustration as it can take a beginner a lot of time to finally get a bevel on a particularly stubborn blade and I think a lot of guys might be tempted to give up without ever getting a new fresh bevel, thinking they just don't have the technique required to hone a razor properly.

    The best advice I can give at this point to any beginner is to think of honing like sanding wood. You don't use a fine sandpaper to shape wood and you don't use a coarse sandpaper to finish wood. You use the right grit sandpaper for the stage of the sanding project if you want to get it done best. You could, theoretically rough sand a board with 800 grit sandpaper if you have enough patience, but..... really it's better to get it shaped and smoothed with something better suited to that than fine sandpaper. Like most things in life, experience is probably the best teacher and advice... well, it's mostly good for giving people ideas about what to try as they gain their experience.

    p.s. I forgot to mention that one of the reasons I hate using anything but the most effective stone for bevel setting is that I hone a whole lot of razors and there's hone maintenance and replacement that I have to keep in mind. Even diamonds go dull and other sorts of stones need flattened and, themselves, have "material removed", so to speak. And that's something that most people really wouldn't have to think about or consider.
    Last edited by PapaBull; 05-26-2012 at 05:00 PM.

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    Senior Member IamSt8ght's Avatar
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    If cost is a factor, you may consider a Norton 4/8k stone. You can set a bevel on a 4k in a short amount of time, then proceed through a progression, and finish with your 12k. I did exactly that with a razor I purchased from ebay that was a dull as a butter knife, and it is now my best and most comfortable shaver. It took less than 15 minutes to set the bevel. gssixgun has a video somewhere where he sets a bevel on a Norton 4k that was very helpful to me. Maybe he can direct you to that video. It's really not that difficult. Good luck.
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  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krisdavie View Post
    Hey guys, I need some advice on the next stone i should look to purchase to help me with my honing.

    I already own a C12k and a BBW for some touch up honing and they work really well, Ive managed to keep my two razors sharp enough to shave with for over a year now.

    However I recently picked up a razor from ebay that is so blunt its not funny, I know that both the stones I have aren't really going to cut it in terms of putting an edge on the razor to start with however Im not sure if I should purchase a 1000k or a 3000k ??


    Ive been looking at the superstones that are available on TheInvisibleEdge.co.uk, they aren't exactly cheap so I'd prefer to get one that is going to help me get a blunt blade ready to use with my btw and C12k ?

    thanks for the advice.

    Kris
    1000 range stone or a DMT would work, you will also need something for the gap between that and the C12K. I have and use coti's, but I have not used the BBW side of one, should work with thick enough slurry, but not sure how long it would take.

  11. #19
    Hones & Honing randydance062449's Avatar
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    Hmmm.... for years I used wet/dry sandpaper for exactly the type of edges you are describing and it works very well and very fast plus the cost is low.

    Just cut the sandpaper to fit on top of a hone, wet it, and start honing using some pressure. Be sure to apply torque to the edge.
    It can be a pain to learn at first but the only hone that is faster is a DMT.
    I suggest using a 500/600 grit for the really dull/rusted edges then switch to the 1000 grit after the nicks/rust/old steel are gone.
    Purchase 3 sheets of each and that should be good for 2-3 razors.

    BTW, I own and have used most of the 1K hones and the sandpaper is still my fallback method.
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  12. #20
    Robert Williams Custom Razors PapaBull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by randydance062449 View Post
    Hmmm.... for years I used wet/dry sandpaper for exactly the type of edges you are describing and it works very well and very fast plus the cost is low.

    Just cut the sandpaper to fit on top of a hone, wet it, and start honing using some pressure. Be sure to apply torque to the edge.
    It can be a pain to learn at first but the only hone that is faster is a DMT.
    I suggest using a 500/600 grit for the really dull/rusted edges then switch to the 1000 grit after the nicks/rust/old steel are gone.
    Purchase 3 sheets of each and that should be good for 2-3 razors.

    BTW, I own and have used most of the 1K hones and the sandpaper is still my fallback method.
    Good quality sandpaper is a very viable and effective option. Good on you to mention it. I used to do that a lot until I started honing so many razors that I just got some DMT's. I probably have about 8 DMT stones and probably should order a couple more. They wear out, too. For casual honing a few razors, I think the option of using sandpaper is an excellent one and one that I think is overlooked too often. Good call.

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