Thread: Lather going dry on my face

I've been using Mitchell's Wool Fat soap, and it seems to dry out on my face. Last shave I finished the right side of my face, and by that time the left side did not feel wet. I relathered and went forward, but by the time I was done with the left side, the neck suds didn't feel wet.

Here is how I do my lather. I've got a glass bowl with the MWF squished into the corners. I let my brush soak in hot water while I shower. When done, I give it a quick single flick to get some of the water off, and stick it in my MWF bowl and mix away. A quick, thick foamy lather whips right up and when the brush is loaded up I start lathering my face.

I don't want runny lather, but I don't want the lather drying on my face either. How much water should I be using?

Hi Mark,
It may be that water is not the issue. From your post, it seems like the lather feels just right (in the bowl, at least).

That leads me to believe:

1. Face Temp: Your face may be too hot (evaporating the water quicker)...try warm rather than hot water. I do like warmer water too.

2. Ingredients in creme: The ingredients in the creme may not be too conducive of supporting an "extended" period of moist lather. I found this to be the case with some cremes I use (some of Trumper's lines, The Shamrock line). Some of these cremes contain different proportions of similar ingredients...this, may be enough to change the moisture characteristics when applied to skin compared to bowl.

What I found to do the trick is:

1. Glycerin: I squirt ~1ml of it in the bowl with the creme. I whip up the lather and viola...not much difference in looks, but the glycerin, being a natural emollient, will keep the moisture in the lather longer.

2. Pre-shave regimen: I also found the longer I prep my beard, the longer the lather stays moist on my face. I spend a good 5-10 minutes prep time (after shower) and I get amazing results.


I am not sure if this helps, but wanted to give you my $0.02 and what works for me.

how much water to add really depends on how much soap you actually use
first off i would build a little lather then move the brush with pre-lather to an empty bowl
then keep lathering adding a tiny amount of water(spoonfulls)
if it gets a bit runny you could load the brush a little more or just do a little less next time

edit: Iuse hot water and a hot bowl so if the lather gets a bit on the wet side i can spend a little more time whipping and it dryes a bit on its own

Mitchell's Wool Fat (MWF) is an excellent soap, it is a joy to use it whenever I can. Provided that you do not have a hard water problem, I can think of two reasons (really one) why your lather is drying on your face: 1) not enough product used to build your lather; or 2) lather that it is too dry. it is hard to know exactly which one of the two is responsible for the problem in this case. Needless to say that if your lather is too dry and you add more product you will compound the problem and vice versa (hydrating the lather when you have too little product). I said that it is really one because the soap : water ratio is just not right. Different products have different product : water ratios and you may have to play with it to find the one that works best for you, MWF seems to take a bit more water than others. Another thing to consider is how long it takes you to shave, if it takes too long, the lather could go bad before the shave is over.

Both excessively wet or dry lather can surprisingly have a similar appearance. If you go too far past peak (the point where no more lather can be built), the lather would vanish into thin air. One thing is for sure, it is better to use a bit past the point lather than dry lather. How do you know if your lather is dry? put a little bit of lather on your thumb and touch it with your index finger; then separate the thumb and the index finger slowly and see how long you can go before the lather breaks. You should be able to go about 1". I call this the inch test.

I think the advice you have received so far is great but I would not recommend using so much glycerin in one shave, perhaps 3 drops max, and I reiterate, I never had the need to supplement my lather with glycerin when using MWF. Glycerin is a humectant because it helps retain wate but adding too much can lead to dryness of the skin. Also, although I am an avid face latherer, and also a firm believer that one should not switch lathering methods until the first one has been mastered, I think that bowl lathering is the easiest way to determine the soap : water ratio for a particular product, as you have better control of the variables.

Al raz.

Originally Posted by markevens

I've been using Mitchell's Wool Fat soap, and it seems to dry out on my face. Last shave I finished the right side of my face, and by that time the left side did not feel wet. I relathered and went forward, but by the time I was done with the left side, the neck suds didn't feel wet.

Here is how I do my lather. I've got a glass bowl with the MWF squished into the corners. I let my brush soak in hot water while I shower. When done, I give it a quick single flick to get some of the water off, and stick it in my MWF bowl and mix away. A quick, thick foamy lather whips right up and when the brush is loaded up I start lathering my face.

I don't want runny lather, but I don't want the lather drying on my face either. How much water should I be using?

Ok, so here is what I'm thinking.

My beard prep is already very solid. Hot shower, lather in shower with brush, rinse, let conditioner sit for rest of shower, work lather in pre shave for 2-3 minutes. I'll try extending this though and see what happens.

I'll get the MWF out of the bowl I'm using for my lather. Load up my brush in a seperate bowl, and then go back to the scuttle to really work the lather up. This would enable me to adjust the water:soap ratio better than when the MWF is in the scuttle I'm using to build my lather up in.

If I can't get it to work with this, I'll get some glycerin, although I'm not sure where I'd get it from.

+1 for Alraz's comments, which nails the issue. No need for extra advice from me on that front.

One thing I will throw out there for consideration: there is absolutely no law that says lather MUST remain perfect for an entire pass. There is nothing wrong with touching up an area with some more lather. It's as simple as that.

I don't want to sound facetious, that is not my intention at all. But quite frequently newbs post that their lather is dry or not lasting for an entire shave. So what? Run your brush over your face again and voila, problem solved with no shame whatsoever. No one is grading you on your technique.

Hi Al,
I agree with everything you said except the glycerin "scoop"...it will NEVER lead to dryness of skin (unless you have some sort of allergy or other skin condition), no matter how much of it you use. Depending on skin type, you will reach a plateau in effectiveness, but never dryness. Glycerin is present in all fats and by itself will draw moisture from the environment to the skin..not vice versa.

Also, I do not think that 3 drops will amount to much. 1 ml may be on the high side, but not knowing one's skin chemistry and short of experimenting to find the right amount, 1 ml seems like a safe bet. You can always reduce (or increase) from there.

Just my $0.02.

Originally Posted by Alraz

Mitchell's Wool Fat (MWF) is an excellent soap, it is a joy to use it whenever I can. Provided that you do not have a hard water problem, I can think of two reasons (really one) why your lather is drying on your face: 1) not enough product used to build your lather; or 2) lather that it is too dry. it is hard to know exactly which one of the two is responsible for the problem in this case. Needless to say that if your lather is too dry and you add more product you will compound the problem and vice versa (hydrating the lather when you have too little product). I said that it is really one because the soap : water ratio is just not right. Different products have different product : water ratios and you may have to play with it to find the one that works best for you, MWF seems to take a bit more water than others. Another thing to consider is how long it takes you to shave, if it takes too long, the lather could go bad before the shave is over.

Both excessively wet or dry lather can surprisingly have a similar appearance. If you go too far past peak (the point where no more lather can be built), the lather would vanish into thin air. One thing is for sure, it is better to use a bit past the point lather than dry lather. How do you know if your lather is dry? put a little bit of lather on your thumb and touch it with your index finger; then separate the thumb and the index finger slowly and see how long you can go before the lather breaks. You should be able to go about 1". I call this the inch test.

I think the advice you have received so far is great but I would not recommend using so much glycerin in one shave, perhaps 3 drops max, and I reiterate, I never had the need to supplement my lather with glycerin when using MWF. Glycerin is a humectant because it helps retain wate but adding too much can lead to dryness of the skin. Also, although I am an avid face latherer, and also a firm believer that one should not switch lathering methods until the first one has been mastered, I think that bowl lathering is the easiest way to determine the soap : water ratio for a particular product, as you have better control of the variables.

Al raz.

Good strategy

You can find Glycerin in any pharmacy store (Walgreens, Rite Aid, etc...)

Originally Posted by markevens

Ok, so here is what I'm thinking.

My beard prep is already very solid. Hot shower, lather in shower with brush, rinse, let conditioner sit for rest of shower, work lather in pre shave for 2-3 minutes. I'll try extending this though and see what happens.

I'll get the MWF out of the bowl I'm using for my lather. Load up my brush in a seperate bowl, and then go back to the scuttle to really work the lather up. This would enable me to adjust the water:soap ratio better than when the MWF is in the scuttle I'm using to build my lather up in.

If I can't get it to work with this, I'll get some glycerin, although I'm not sure where I'd get it from.

everything i've read and tried so far lead me to believe that too much glycerin will dry out your skin.. it has no fat to it and basically pulls oils from your skin.. so an overdose will eventually cause dry skin.

am i wrong in this?

Yes...there's a lot of mis-information out there.

First of all, Glycerin easily dissolves in water and alcohol, but is not soluble in oils. So, NO...It will not dissolve the oils of your skin or strip your skin of its natural oils/fats.

Second, as Al eluded to above, Glycerin is considered a humectant - a substance that absorbs or helps another substance retain moisture. In other words, this denotes that glycerin, draws humidity towards your skin. The reason this is so is because Glycerin possesses three hydrophilic hydroxyl groups that are responsible for its solubility in water as well as its hygroscopic nature - i.e., it is able to absorb water from the atmosphere.

I believe that when Al mentioned that this will dry out your skin, he meant if it were used as a 100% pure solution. But, you always dilute this in water (e.g., when making lather, etc...). Owing to its hygroscopic nature, when 100% pure glycerin is placed on the tongue, it may cause a blister or eruption. This is primarily owing to the fact that glycerin is basically dehydrating. However, when glycerin is diluted with water (as you do when shaving) and applied on the skin, it will make the membrane softer. As long as you have enough water on skin, in lather or atmosphere (humid shower environment), Glycerin will keep your skin moist by drawing water from the atmosphere.

I, personally, have used pure glycerin and mixed it with water and rubbed it on skin and it felt great. You will get a warming sensation if you did this with just pure, 100% glycerin...it will tend to want to draw moisture from somewhere, it may be your skin...and it's the 100% pure glycerin that will lead to drying, not the one mixed with water or lather, etc...


Hope this helps a bit,
Robert

Originally Posted by vthomlinson

everything i've read and tried so far lead me to believe that too much glycerin will dry out your skin.. it has no fat to it and basically pulls oils from your skin.. so an overdose will eventually cause dry skin.

am i wrong in this?