Thread: How could this be happening?

Originally Posted by The0ctopus

im new to razors, but i know that certain chemicals, will have similair effects as running lighters up and down your metal... they can open the metal up, damage it on the cellular level, allowing oxygen into the metal, weakening it, causing pitting and weakness. i wouldnt use anything on something like a razor unless it was specificly intended to polish such metals..... not anything like CLR, the all purpose calciumn lime rust remover, youd probably be better off with WD-40,(not that i recomend that, but it is intended to drive away moisture))
id think that the only thing that could cause that kind of damage to such new metal would be constant weathering or moisture, which u say isnt the case, or chemical/abrasion problems

Can I just put right some serious errors here please ?
-A lighter blackens stuff like metal because the gas (which is formed by chains of carbon, like CnHn+2) doesn't burn completely due to low temperature. This causes soot to deposit on surfaces near or in the flame. The metal does not change.
-There doesn't exist something like a cellular level in anorganic material. Only atomic and molecular (which in the case of metal is almost the same thing).
-Oxygen doesn't really 'enter' the metal, it exchanges electrons with it, eventually the iron gets oxidized, which is actually a chemical term. Visible rust will form if lots of iron oxidizes.
-Metal does not 'open up', the rusting always happens at the surface of what is still metal (rust is not metal anymore, it is ferrous oxide, if I get the right English term there). Some forms of oxide, like zink oxide or aluminium oxide, actually protects the metal right beneath it from oxidation, because it is not porous to water and oxygen. Rust is porous, therefore, metal will keep rusting even if the surface is already covered. Zink is therefore used to protect iron, which is called galvanising. The zink oxidizes, a protective zink oxide layer forms, any further oxidation is halted because the required molecules cannot reach the metal anymore. If the zink layer is damaged and the iron exposed to the environment, rusting can take place and the material will gradually deteriorate.

Redox in a nutshell. Please note, I'm currently specialized in cellular biologie/biotechnology, not metallurgy. I tried to simplify things so it's understandable for non-chemistry people.

Originally Posted by Zwaplat

Can I just put right some serious errors here please ?

It's been a couple years since my last college chem class, but chem was my first major, and I think we're replacing errors with different errors here. Allow me to clarify.

Originally Posted by Zwaplat

-A lighter blackens stuff like metal because the gas (which is formed by chains of carbon, like CnHn+2) doesn't burn completely due to low temperature. This causes soot to deposit on surfaces near or in the flame. The metal does not change.

I believe that the effect he is referring to is the effect of rapid heating and slow cooling, which is that it anneals (softens) the metal. While this is not 100% accurate either, anything which pulls the carbon out of the steel, like soaking it in CLR or other highly caustic chemicals, will weaken the steel. In fact, if you were to take enough carbon out of the steel, it wouldn't be steel anymore. It would be iron.

Originally Posted by Zwaplat

-There doesn't exist something like a cellular level in anorganic material. Only atomic and molecular (which in the case of metal is almost the same thing).

You are correct that the wrong terminology was used here. He should have said molecular, but the idea remains sound. Also, don't forget that metals and alloys (steel is an alloy after all, not a metal) also have a crystaline structure of some kind. If they didn't, they would be metallic glass, which is something that has still only been seen in one or two labs, and Star Trek.

Originally Posted by Zwaplat

-Oxygen doesn't really 'enter' the metal, it exchanges electrons with it, eventually the iron gets oxidized, which is actually a chemical term. Visible rust will form if lots of iron oxidizes.

Again, the terminology is wrong, but the idea is correct. Also, in a non-scientific sense, oxygen does enter into the metal, as rust can eat it's way down into a piece of steel. That's what pitting is.

Originally Posted by Zwaplat

-Metal does not 'open up'

That's actually completely wrong. Sorry. Steel is in fact somewhat porous. (very very slightly) When heated or exposed to certain chemicals, these pores will expand, allowing greater access for oxygen, moisture, and caustic chemical agents to enter these pores, where they can cause pitting rust much more quickly than on the surface.

Originally Posted by Zwaplat

Some forms of oxide, like zink oxide or aluminium oxide, actually protects the metal right beneath it from oxidation, because it is not porous to water and oxygen. Rust is porous, therefore, metal will keep rusting even if the surface is already covered. Zink is therefore used to protect iron, which is called galvanising. The zink oxidizes, a protective zink oxide layer forms, any further oxidation is halted because the required molecules cannot reach the metal anymore. If the zink layer is damaged and the iron exposed to the environment, rusting can take place and the material will gradually deteriorate.

That one is 100% correct, but almost totally irrelevent to a discussion about cleaning high carbon steel with caustic chemicals. But while we're on the topic, one of my favorite chemical reactions is a great example of this type of behaviour. Flourine gas is one of the most destructive chemical agents out there. It will literally tear apart almost anything on a molecular level to get one more electron for it's outer orbit. This includes most metals and alloys. However, in much the same way that a layer of zinc oxyde creates a very effective layer of protection on zinc metal (or galvanized steel), copper which is exposed to flourine gas will form a 1 molecule thick layer of copper flouride, which is one of the few chemicals out there which are completely ipmpervious to flourine gas. For this reason, flourine gas is always stored in copper tanks because the cost to store it in anything else, would be astronomical as the only other thing you could store it in would be a noble metal, most of which are to soft for pressure tanks in addition to being very expensive

Originally Posted by Zwaplat

Redox in a nutshell. Please note, I'm currently specialized in cellular biologie/biotechnology, not metallurgy. I tried to simplify things so it's understandable for non-chemistry people.

Redox in a nutshell. Please note, I'm currently a photographer with a day job at a casino, not a metallurgist. But, not all that many years ago, I was studying hard to be a chemist, and I hope I've helped clear things up a little.

I dry mine with Toilet Paper very thoroughly. Make sure to gently dry between the scales. I leave it open for 5 or so minutes while I rinse my face, put on aftershave, rinse out my brush, clean up the sink, ect.

I live in the northeast (NYC) where we have LOTS of humidity. Never had a rust problem.

I agree with the rest of the pack, use Maas. It's the best.

just because you live in a area that is dry doesn't mean humidity can't have started the damage. I live in Utah, dry also. You can create a humid environment any time you shower, or bathe.. I noticed i was doing just this.. i was keeping my razors in the medicine cab over the sink. i started finding one particular razor that the humidity effected more than the others. solved the problem by moving the razors out of the bathroom for storage, only took them in the bathroom when i was using them, they dried them, stopped them and put in other room. the rust isssue has gone away.

If you will remember from the original post, it didn't matter how much I cleaned the razor, after every shave it would end up looking like this (while I was still shaving!). I took it to Maximilian and he buffed it up for me. Now it shines like a mirror. I even shaved with it yesterday and now rust or patina has appeared. Thanks Max! My theory is that the surface was too textured and any dirt, muck, or oxidation would immediately stick to the razor. Now that it is super smooth, none of that gunk sticks. In any case, it looks great now and shaves like butter! Thanks again, Max. You are the best.

If any of you guys need a restore or want some amazing custom scales, see Maximilian.

Well,

It's been about a week and three shaves since max polisher her up for me. Still shiny and no new stains. Guess it just needed a once over. If any of you guys need any restoration work done, send it to Maximilian. He's the best around.