Thread: A Sad Tale...

Well, I find it sad! Suppose you had taken a NOS razor that needed no work other than a bevel reset and hone, put it in a new pair of scales and passed it on. Two months later you are told that it has been left "...standing in boiled water until..." there was a chance to dry it properly, during which it developed "...dark patches..." that had been partially stropped-off, but after which the razor would not cut hair. Another month goes by and the razor is returned with a chip in it, caused by simply shaving, allegedly and the inference that the razor was not up to snuff. What would you make of it? Can a bit simply snap off the bevel during the course of a shave? Here are some pics of the razor showing the chip and the water damage:



If you look carefully you can see a small crack in addition to the chip and some raggedness to the edge. I don't know what to make of it - could leaving it in water for some time cause enough pitting to weaken the edge, or has it been knocked against something? Any opinions would be welcome!

Regards,
Neil

Waterspout ding

Neil,

I would be thinking there was more heat involved than just standing in boiling water (off the stove). Perhaps left on the stove (forgotten for awhile) with water boiling away and enough heat that it got a quick cold rinse to cool it so it could be handled-causing lots of stress in the metal. I would think the edge being so thin would be the most vulnerable. But then, depending on scale material, you probably would see some evidence there also. What ever really happened, I see more heat than admitted to.

Regards,

Howard

As soon as I heard about the boiling water I would have written off that razor and it's owner. The boiling water is hot enough to alter the temper and stresses in the steel and how it was cooled off afterwards is anyone's guess.

"Waterspout ding" - I like that!

Howard, I'm not too clear about what was meant re: 'boiled water' - whether it meant that the water was boiled to sterilise it and then allowed to cool, or whether the blade was sat in boiling water. Like you say, something has certainly stressed the metal. From my reading, the razor was cleaned in barbicide, and then dipped in the 'boiled water' to get the soap of between strokes, then left in the boiled water for an unstated amount of time. Long enough to cause those pits, though, as I have pictures of the bevel from the time of rescaling the blade, and they were not present then.

I do remember saying to the owner that a fine metal polish like Maas might remove the discolouration. Something along those lines was obviously tried, as the scuff marks in all different directions attest to.

Regards,
Neil

Is water at the boiling point actually hot enough to alter temper?

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Is water at the boiling point actually hot enough to alter temper?

I don't think so - I reckon that the temper temperature is somewhere around 425 degrees F, whereas boiling water in an open container is around 212 degrees F.

Regards,
Neil

The idea on the hot to cold is a solid one, but I really think there could be more about it. Evidently the purchaser didn't know much about how to sanitize a blade.

I think their is multiple things going on here. The chipping that is evident along the entire edge is what is throwing me off. What I am wondering is if the owner didn't develop rust on the blade due to the water boiling, or at least it left mineral deposits & they took a rotary device (dremel or buffer) to the razor. Looks like what a dremel would do with a wire brush attachment. As far as the missing chunks, I would say that it's a mishap of some sort like a drop: The large chips caused by hitting the counter on the way down and hitting the toe upon landing on the floor causing the crack.

Originally Posted by shooter74743

The idea on the hot to cold is a solid one, but I really think there could be more about it. Evidently the purchaser didn't know much about how to sanitize a blade.

I think their is multiple things going on here. The chipping that is evident along the entire edge is what is throwing me off. What I am wondering is if the owner didn't develop rust on the blade due to the water boiling, or at least it left mineral deposits & they took a rotary device (dremel or buffer) to the razor. Looks like what a dremel would do with a wire brush attachment. As far as the missing chunks, I would say that it's a mishap of some sort like a drop: The large chips caused by hitting the counter on the way down and hitting the toe upon landing on the floor causing the crack.

I agree about the hot/cold idea causing large stresses too, and that there has certainly been something or other done that I am not aware of.

What has thrown me is that after the water staining the razor was stropped to remove some of the marks, after which it was found not to cut hair. This was after its second use. Then I am told that after the Maas (or whatever) treatment, it gave a satisfactory (third) shave, but during the fourth shave the chip broke off while someone was being shaved, resulting in a cut and the return of the razor. So something must have been done to the edge between the second and third shaves.

Your dremel suggestion is a good one - I only used a dremel once on a razor, I caught the edge with the wire brush which flipped the razor, resulting in a chip and some raggedness. Interesting theory...!

Regards,
Neil

Just another vote for an an obvious operator induced injury. Whether by rotary tool, waterspout, or floor, this razor came in contact with something other than skin, linen, and leather. My .02 FWIW.