Thread: Framebacks -- harder steel ?

I don't have any frameback razors. Not by plan, just by chance.

A question to people who _do_ have them:

. . . Is the steel of a frameback blade tempered any harder than the steel of
. . . a typical hollow-ground razor?

Thanks --

. Charles

I only had one Helje tested at the tang & it was 57.5. Not all that hard. Sure the edge quenches faster so maybe a tad harder than the tang.
Whether it was the exception or the rule I dunno but of the few I've honed I'd say they were average hardness & not in the 60 + range.

In my experience they are no harder that standard straights.

I own a few.. The western ones seem to have the same hardness.... The japanese one is so hard it is not fun to shave with... But th swiss, french, and American are great and nice shavers.

I would say stiffer, rather than harder. They tend to be not as finely grinded (often older and pre dates the 1/1 and extra hollow ground technique), but I can only speak for the Swedes that has passed through my hands. I own a couple of Japanese framebacks and they seems to be harder and def _much_ heavier in general.

I would agree with them being stiffer. The frame is usually made of different steel. A similar thing happens with concrete. If you reinforce it with steel its characteristics change.

I've only tried 3 framebacks - all Swedes. Sometimes their non-straight edge profile takes some accommodating of strokes to hone, but the steel seems like most others. The shave seems much like that of a comparable 1/2 grind. Stiff, like a 1/4 hollow, but light weight like a full hollow. For me, the feel is odd, but the shaves are undeniably good. They nail the tough stubble in difficult areas like a heavy grind.

I don't know anything about framebacks, but I do know something about steel. Harder is stiffer for the same physical size/shape. If they laminate softer steel to the back, it is more ductile (bends without breaking). The skinnier blade may harden up harder (Rc) but most steels are then tempered to relieve internal stresses and remove some of the hardness to make them more ductile. High carbon steels (.95% C) usually can be heat treated into the low/mid 60's range, but are tempered back to the high 50's low 60's to make them less brittle. Steels are heated above their critical temperature, quenched (cooled quickly) and then usually heat treated again at a much lower temperature (~400-500° F) to soften them and make them "tougher".

I don't think that framebacks are harder but if you don't tape the spine/frame, especially on Swedish framebacks, it can give you the illusion that the blade is extra hard as the frame is generally softer than the blade.

I was surprised by how soft the spine was on my ti framebacks...

For me setting a bevel was not bad though

Originally Posted by Theseus

I don't think that framebacks are harder but if you don't tape the spine/frame, especially on Swedish framebacks, it can give you the illusion that the blade is extra hard as the frame is generally softer than the blade.