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Thread: My First Coticule

  1. #21
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    Either a La Grise or La Nouvelle Veine
    either way they both leave fantastically smooth edges and I personally would have gotten a Coticule from one of those 2 layers if I could choose a specific vein
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  3. #22
    Senior Member Gasman's Avatar
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    Well, No miricle has happened. I tried no slurry and on a 12K finished edge that shaves very well. Seemed to get dull as after a bit of time it stopped undercutting the water.
    So went and made a slurry. Got the edge back to undercutting the slurry, started adding water and deluting. After I was at water only it stopped undercutting again. ???
    I tried running water and that didn't help it get any closer. After some time of cleaning the stone, using water only its now at the point it wont pass the arm hair test.

    Well, This is about how id figured it would go. Got a lot to learn thats for sure. When honing on water only and very light pressure it feels rough on the stone. With slurry its gritty feeling but feels like a nice fine grit and slick on the stone.

    Not too sure what going on. I stayed up last night and watched many many vids on Coti honing but I guess that didn't help any. Well need to try a few things I guess until something starts to work.
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    Jerry...

  4. #23
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    I had trouble with the Coti at first as well.
    What I did was I took as much out of the 'equation' as I could, minimizing all the different subjective factors that I could,
    meaning that instead of using slurry and diluting, I first wanted to figure out a couple things about my Coticule first by isolating it's usage.

    What made my life easier was as you did, I'd go through a Naniwa progression and finish on the 12k making sure that these stages were done right.

    Then I'd go to a Coticule with water alone, regardless of what happens I would not use slurry at all at this stage (that's what the Naniwa progression was for). I usually hone on very small hones and I can't look for undercutting, so that's not something I usually focus on.
    On these slower type Cotiules I'd easily do 100 laps on water alone. Just some laps on plain water and then to the strop, a Coticule finished edge can always use a good stropping!

    I've done years of trial and error and found this the easiest way for me, I used to think I was ""cheating"", but it's the only sure way for me to get the most out of my Coticules where I'm sure all the stages are done right without speculating with slurry and grit/polish. Etc.

    What I would try in your case is probably getting the 12k edge finish back on the razor and just go to the coti on plain water. In my common sense that should work.
    If that doesn't work something ain't right.
    But that's just me, other people will probably chime in with some more/better advice.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by TristanLudlow; 09-27-2017 at 10:25 PM.
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  6. #24
    Senior Member blabbermouth outback's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TristanLudlow View Post
    I had trouble with the Coti at first as well.
    What I did was I took as much out of the 'equation' as I could, minimizing all the different subjective factors that I could,
    meaning that instead of using slurry and diluting, I first wanted to figure out a couple things about my Coticule first by isolating it's usage.

    What made my life easier was as you did, I'd go through a Naniwa progression and finish on the 12k making sure that these stages were done right.

    Then I'd go to a Coticule with water alone, regardless of what happens I would not use slurry at all at this stage (that's what the Naniwa progression was for). I usually hone on very small hones and I can't look for undercutting, so that's not something I usually focus on.
    On these slower type Cotiules I'd easily do 100 laps on water alone. Just some laps on plain water and then to the strop, a Coticule finished edge can always use a good stropping!

    I've done years of trial and error and found this the easiest way for me, I used to think I was ""cheating"", but it's the only sure way for me to get the most out of my Coticules where I'm sure all the stages are done right without speculating with slurry and grit/polish. Etc.

    What I would try in your case is probably getting the 12k edge finish back on the razor and just go to the coti on plain water. In my common sense that should work.
    If that doesn't work something ain't right.
    But that's just me, other people will probably chime in with some more/better advice.

    Good luck!
    I've done the same, told Jerry that when I loaned him one of my Coties.
    Even though it shaved well, I too found that a few passes on a Cr/ox pasted strop, made it even better.
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    Mike

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  8. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasman View Post
    Well, No miricle has happened. I tried no slurry and on a 12K finished edge that shaves very well. Seemed to get dull as after a bit of time it stopped undercutting the water.
    So went and made a slurry. Got the edge back to undercutting the slurry, started adding water and deluting. After I was at water only it stopped undercutting again. ???
    I tried running water and that didn't help it get any closer. After some time of cleaning the stone, using water only its now at the point it wont pass the arm hair test.

    Well, This is about how id figured it would go. Got a lot to learn thats for sure. When honing on water only and very light pressure it feels rough on the stone. With slurry its gritty feeling but feels like a nice fine grit and slick on the stone.

    Not too sure what going on. I stayed up last night and watched many many vids on Coti honing but I guess that didn't help any. Well need to try a few things I guess until something starts to work.
    Oh...your post made me smile...
    I have a hunch I know what is happening.

    You have bothe the 12k stone and the coticule near...please check to see if your hones are flat.

    Sometimes it happens that hones getting used by the same honer tend to get a distinct micro dishing pattern specific to the honer's technique....

    If you take several hones from diffrent people they all will have a distinct pattern of ware and dishing...sometimes unnoticeble until you lay the stone on a flat surface and look at a light source.

    Well anyway...if you are not obsessed about keeping your hones flat... in time a razor may acomodate to the hone....not beeing flat.

    So when you put that razor to a ''new'' hone it might not match the new surface....and BOOM!...a razor you know and hone easyly...can become a problem on a new hone...making it look bad.

    Or if your razor and stone are flat...maybe the new stone isnt.

    If the stones are flat...use marker on the bevels to see what's happening...if the bevels are touching all the way.

    I recomend after flatening the coti...use a razor you are familiar with...that you can sharpen easy...bevel set it on a FLAT bevel setter...progress on flat stones up to @4-8k...then take it to the coticule with slury and x passes...then under the running water....
    It should solve all your problems provided you use flat stones and a razor you are familiar with.
    Coticules are not that scary...they just have a few more variables that need dialing in then other naturals.

    Keep calm sir...you'll get there.
    Last edited by ovidiucotiga; 09-28-2017 at 01:13 AM.
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  10. #26
    Senior Member Gasman's Avatar
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    The Coti was lapped but before I put it away tonight I went ahead and lapped it myself. It was flat but now I know it is. I can now see the blueish streaks in the stone and the dark line going across it is showing more. The Speckles around the dark streak are not there any more. Its like a blank spot in the stone. It feel smooth to my hand, just don't look as uniform in pattern now. Probably nothing but I did notice it after lapping...
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    Thanks for your opinions on how to deal with this stone. This was the plan from the beginning, finisher only. I'm not that dedicated to go from 1K to the Coti.
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    Jerry...

  11. #27
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    To see what it can do as a finisher only, I'd advise you to take it through your normal regiment to shave ready, add one layer of tape and do 50 light strokes on water. That way you are sure the finish is 100% off your coticule.

    Regards,

    Pieter
    Last edited by Pithor; 09-28-2017 at 04:30 AM.

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  13. #28
    Senior Member Gasman's Avatar
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    Add one layer of tape? Micro Bevel I'm Guessing? Never tried it before. I'll keep that one in mind. Thanks for the comment Pieter.
    Jerry...

  14. #29
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    I've found that with mine, I need to use a REALLY light touch on my finishing laps and also as Pithor said above add one layer of tape to make a double bevel. I've gotten some of my best edges ever doing this
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  16. #30
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    Secondary bevels are highly underrated, probably because they may feel like cheating.
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